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View Poll Results: What is your view on the gun debate?
Ban Assault Rifles 8 33.33%
Ban All Guns 4 16.67%
Bullet Control 2 8.33%
Keep the Laws the Same 5 20.83%
Other 5 20.83%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-23-2012, 09:40 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Re: The Gun Debate

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I think you misunderstood me.

When I wrote "5-shots" I meant basically a revolver (not automatic or semi-auto), but just five shot maximum type of weapon.

Basically, a pea shooter. Something to give the gun nut comfort that he is actually protecting home and body, but really he isn't.
The whole spirit of the second amendment isn't about shooting burglars, it's about being able to uprise against the government. So having military weapons in the hands of civilians is necessary to achieve that.
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:43 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Re: The Gun Debate

I don't need anything past my 12 gauge. Anyone who thinks that you need anything more inside your own house doesn't know much about buckshot or deer slugs. If I had a handgun and I saw someone with a 12 gauge my ass is getting the **** out of deer slug range as fast I can. You're never going to get up if someone hits you with one of those and it might not matter much where they hit you.
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:45 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Re: The Gun Debate

Yeah I have 4 shot at the ready by my 12 gauge.
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:50 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Re: The Gun Debate

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I don't need anything past my 12 gauge. Anyone who thinks that you need anything more inside your own house doesn't know much about buckshot or deer slugs. If I had a handgun and I saw someone with a 12 gauge my ass is getting the **** out of deer slug range as fast I can. You're never going to get up if someone hits you with one of those and it might not matter much where they hit you.
The only gun I own is a 40-caliber semi-auto, which was my service weapon when I was an active fed. So I bought the same weapon when I retired since I was comfortable with it.

The only reason I don't own a shotgun is I have nowhere to "safe" it. (My semi-auto is in a small safe.) I am not a gun nut as I have never fired the weapon outside of range qualification for LEO retirees, which is something I have done exactly once in five years of retirement.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:00 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Re: The Gun Debate

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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
I think you misunderstood me.

When I wrote "5-shots" I meant basically a revolver (not automatic or semi-auto), but just five shot maximum type of weapon.

Basically, a pea shooter. Something to give the gun nut comfort that he is actually protecting home and body, but really he isn't.
I was referring to Wilt, not yourself on this one Ron.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:05 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Re: The Gun Debate

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Who said fully auto? I said rate of fire.
The rate of fire is the speed at which the shooter pulls the trigger.

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The weapon that was used in Newtown is the same weapon used by about a half dozen European special forces units, with small differences. Namely the military versions have the option of 3 round burst fire and slightly different stocks.
Yes, in the police and military they have fully automatic weapons. The reason they spec out the three shot burst is not for any magic or "it's more effective!" it's because it's more cost efficient. Soldiers wasted too many rounds with autofire, and they found that the three shot limit enforced better firing discipline (i.e. they took better aim at their target).

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An assault rifle is mostly defined by the fact that it usually fires a military style cartridge, that is a bullet which is designed to kill people who are wearing body armor. The Bushmaster is chambered for several rounds, mostly the .223 used by the M-4 and the M-16, but also the Nato 5.56mm and 7.65 mm rounds.
No, it's not armor piercing rounds that make something an assault weapon. Using this logic a .380 revolver could be an "assault weapon" and any actual assault weapon wouldn't be (because most people don't bother with armor piercing rounds, the biggest consumers of those are the police & military). The scary .223 round is just a normal .223 round with something around a 100 grain powder charge.

What makes rifles, all rifles, dangerous (regardless of whether or not they're an "assault weapon") is the higher muzzle velocity. But that has nothing to do with the bullet, per se, or, strictly speaking, the powder charge (a standard .38 round is much wider than any .223 and caries a charge 40% greater than any .223). It's physics. The longer a bullet is forced through the barrel the faster it will travel once it explodes out into the air. This is why rifle bullets are moving ten times the speed of a pistol round. That's why rifles carry a much higher fatality rate than pistols and why police end up shooting black men reaching for their wallets 40 times. They're just shooting until the victim is dead.
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Accused of amassing an 18-gun arsenal to protect his drug business, Bjorkstam is said to have defended Swift to police, describing him as a "good guy" who helped him try to collect a heroin debt but did not deal drugs himself.

"People have been ripping me off," Bjorkstam told police, according to charging papers. "Rob and I are trying to put a stop to that."
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:06 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Re: The Gun Debate

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I was referring to Wilt, not yourself on this one Ron.
That quote about turning citizens into criminals came right from the NRA handbook on how to handle the media.

Wilt_the_Stilt is an NRA syncopath/ditto head, I would like to see something more original from him (if possible).
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:09 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Re: The Gun Debate

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Originally Posted by E.H. Munro View Post
Yes, in the police and military they have fully automatic weapons. The reason they spec out the three shot burst is not for any magic or "it's more effective!" it's because it's more cost efficient. Soldiers wasted too many rounds with autofire, and they found that the three shot limit enforced better firing discipline (i.e. they took better aim at their target).
Fully automatic is for spraying and is highly inefficient, I agree.

We had nothing in terms of fully auto. Semi-auto pistols and shotguns, and that was about it.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:11 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Re: The Gun Debate

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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
That quote about turning citizens into criminals came right from the NRA handbook on how to handle the media.

Wilt_the_Stilt is an NRA syncopath/ditto head, I would like to see something more original from him (if possible).
Maybe if the lily livered teachers had guns, and the principal had a only for emergencies AK47 then we wouldn't be talking about this right now.





...That was supposed to be either an NRA or Wilt quote. Sorry for the **** up.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:14 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Re: The Gun Debate

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Originally Posted by E.H. Munro View Post
The rate of fire is the speed at which the shooter pulls the trigger.



Yes, in the police and military they have fully automatic weapons. The reason they spec out the three shot burst is not for any magic or "it's more effective!" it's because it's more cost efficient. Soldiers wasted too many rounds with autofire, and they found that the three shot limit enforced better firing discipline (i.e. they took better aim at their target).



No, it's not armor piercing rounds that make something an assault weapon. Using this logic a .380 revolver could be an "assault weapon" and any actual assault weapon wouldn't be (because most people don't bother with armor piercing rounds, the biggest consumers of those are the police & military). The scary .223 round is just a normal .223 round with something around a 100 grain powder charge.

What makes rifles, all rifles, dangerous (regardless of whether or not they're an "assault weapon") is the higher muzzle velocity. But that has nothing to do with the bullet, per se, or, strictly speaking, the powder charge (a standard .38 round is much wider than any .223 and caries a charge 40% greater than any .223). It's physics. The longer a bullet is forced through the barrel the faster it will travel once it explodes out into the air. This is why rifle bullets are moving ten times the speed of a pistol round. That's why rifles carry a much higher fatality rate than pistols and why police end up shooting black men reaching for their wallets 40 times. They're just shooting until the victim is dead.
Yep. Bullet conservation is what it was all about. Kind of like when Russians ran out of bullets and had to loot their fallen comrades.


Or just another dumb EH story. One of the two.


"**** our ammo costs are too high" US Military

Yup.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:44 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Re: The Gun Debate

Voted Other.

I think we should provide a commercial license for assault weapons and extended clips, allowing gun ranges and other marksman recreational facilities to rent these weapons to customers within the facility, limiting their use to within that environment. Obtaining the license should require proof of a secure facility and requisite insurance.

I also think we need an awareness campaign so that the common person knows when a mentally ill person becomes a threat to other people. The average person isn't going to see a mentally ill person and assume they are potentially violent, nor should they. Experts in the field need to educate people on which warning signs signal that a mentally ill person is venturing from ill to destructive. It's unfortunate that in this situation, the shooter attempted to purchase the weapons himself and was denied, but was able to obtain them from his mother's collection. I'm going to assume that she was unaware her son was a potential threat.

And we should close the gun show loophole. In this modern time, there's no reason why we can't develop an app to background check an individual at a point of sale.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:25 AM   #87 (permalink)
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Re: The Gun Debate

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And we should close the gun show loophole. In this modern time, there's no reason why we can't develop an app to background check an individual at a point of sale.
This times ten.

I remember going to my first gun show when I was 18 and I just dumbfounded at the things I could buy there without a background check. I remember seeing a .50 caliber sniper rifle there and I thought to myself, "I can actually buy a sniper rifle?"
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:59 AM   #88 (permalink)
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Re: The Gun Debate

It's time to get rid of all of them.

We cannot call ourselves a civilized society as long as we have people gunning down other people as though they were dangerous animals. This is ****ing insane, it really is.
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:08 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Re: The Gun Debate

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Yep. Bullet conservation is what it was all about. Kind of like when Russians ran out of bullets and had to loot their fallen comrades.


Or just another dumb EH story. One of the two.
You may want top study the economics of war before you shoot your mouth off and say idiotic things. Bullets cost money. Tens of thousands of soldiers wasting thousands of rounds of ammunition on full autofire was wasteful.

There's no magic in three bullet bursts. The literal reason that the US military and others spec it out is that without full autofire soldiers took aim at their targets rather than spraying rounds indiscriminately.
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Accused of amassing an 18-gun arsenal to protect his drug business, Bjorkstam is said to have defended Swift to police, describing him as a "good guy" who helped him try to collect a heroin debt but did not deal drugs himself.

"People have been ripping me off," Bjorkstam told police, according to charging papers. "Rob and I are trying to put a stop to that."
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:11 AM   #90 (permalink)
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Re: The Gun Debate

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Originally Posted by E.H. Munro View Post
You may want top study the economics of war before you shoot your mouth off and say idiotic things. Bullets cost money. Tens of thousands of soldiers wasting thousands of rounds of ammunition on full autofire was wasteful.

There's no magic in three bullet bursts. The literal reason that the US military and others spec it out is that without full autofire soldiers took aim at their targets rather than spraying rounds indiscriminately.
Yea, which in turn killed their enemy a lot more efficiently than pray and spray.

Don't try to misinterpret kill efficiency with cost cutting.
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