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Old 03-07-2013, 08:55 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Rand Paul filibuster

Rand Paul is a nut-job but you've got to respect the stance he took last night
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:24 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster

What the **** is his stance? If someone invades this country or is engaged in an act of war against this country on US soil you have to read them their Miranda rights?

It's the lamest and dumbest crap ever conceived. This is something that is totally never going to happen until the mother****ing Zombie Apocalypse or Die Hard 16.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:24 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster

I think he's more politician than nut-job (i.e. I know that like every politician he says what he needs to to get elected, which in Kentucky is a little trickier). And he certainly isn't his father, but thank christ he's emulating the old man here and taking a stand. It's encouraging that guys like Wyden have taken up the call.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:28 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster

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What the **** is his stance? If someone invades this country or is engaged in an act of war against this country on US soil you have to read them their Miranda rights? It's the lamest and dumbest crap ever conceived.
Actually that specifically isn't what Holder wrote. Because the long-held precedent is that the president can take what actions he needs to, as commander-in-chief, in cases where acts of war are concerned. But Holder actually didn't just write "Long held precedent states that the commander-in-chief can take any necessary action in case of acts of war." Instead we got several paragraphs that constitute a non-denial denial.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:47 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster

Here's the letter - http://paul.senate.gov/files/documen...erResponse.pdf - right or wrong, I read it as: "We haven't done it, we don't plan on doing it, we rely on law enforcement... but we'd have to look at it if it could prevent a catastrophe like Pearl Harbor or 9/11 and had no other choice"
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster

Again, all that verbiage, with the specific absence of a "no" in response to the question, indicates otherwise. Here's Lowering the Bar noticing the exact same thing. Because, again, if they're just talking about Pearl Harbor they can just say "It's long established precedent that the commander-in-chief can take the necessary action in cases of acts of war." But Holder specifically doesn't say that. And I find it amusing that an alleged civil libertarian is voicing support for extra-judicial assassination on American soil.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:07 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster

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Originally Posted by Dornado View Post
Here's the letter - http://paul.senate.gov/files/documen...erResponse.pdf - right or wrong, I read it as: "We haven't done it, we don't plan on doing it, we rely on law enforcement... but we'd have to look at it if it could prevent a catastrophe like Pearl Harbor or 9/11 and had no other choice"
Dornado I really hope you aren't buying that shit. Killing a US Citizen without due process (oh, I'm sorry, Obama thinks really long and hard about these things) on US soil is wrong on every single level.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:44 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster

When you boil all of this down, all you have is some grandstanding clown trying to make a point that is completely irrelevant to the real problems that this country faces.

The day we need to start using drones on US Soil is not going to be the day that anyone is going to need a bunch of dumbasses with a stack of lawbooks.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:07 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster

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Originally Posted by E.H. Munro View Post
Again, all that verbiage, with the specific absence of a "no" in response to the question, indicates otherwise. Here's Lowering the Bar noticing the exact same thing. Because, again, if they're just talking about Pearl Harbor they can just say "It's long established precedent that the commander-in-chief can take the necessary action in cases of acts of war." But Holder specifically doesn't say that. And I find it amusing that an alleged civil libertarian is voicing support for extra-judicial assassination on American soil.
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Dornado I really hope you aren't buying that shit. Killing a US Citizen without due process (oh, I'm sorry, Obama thinks really long and hard about these things) on US soil is wrong on every single level.
I was intentionally trying to avoid taking a position, just summarizing what I'd read, so I'm not sure what shit I'm supposedly buying. And Holder didn't say "No" because his answer quite obviously wasn't "No", but something more nuanced... I don't think he's really hiding the ball here.

But for the sake of argument... I'm not quite sure everyone is having the same conversation here. I would absolutely agree with Nim that the constitution requires due process before depriving a citizen of life (or liberty or property). That being said, a police officer does not need to hold a trial before he shoots an armed assailant.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:13 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster

Are you really comfortable with McCainiac having this power? Mitt Romney? Marco Rubio? I get that team blue feels that Obama will protect them, but, jesus, absent a coup d'etat he's gone in three years. I sure as shit ain't comfortable with Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton or John Kerry having that power to go along with just about every republican. Sorry, somewhere you have to take a stand and say "You know what? This ain't ****ing North Korea and you don't just get to murder people that scare you."
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster

And now, there's this.
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster

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Originally Posted by Dornado View Post
I was intentionally trying to avoid taking a position, just summarizing what I'd read, so I'm not sure what shit I'm supposedly buying. And Holder didn't say "No" because his answer quite obviously wasn't "No", but something more nuanced... I don't think he's really hiding the ball here.

But for the sake of argument... I'm not quite sure everyone is having the same conversation here. I would absolutely agree with Nim that the constitution requires due process before depriving a citizen of life (or liberty or property). That being said, a police officer does not need to hold a trial before he shoots an armed assailant.
Yeah, most drone strikes are done with a villain's hand dancing menacingly over a red button.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:03 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster

Having surveillance drones and especially drones targeting US citizens in US airspace is wrong in my opinion. Just because its effective and efficient doesn't make it right.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:11 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster

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Yeah, most drone strikes are done with a villain's hand dancing menacingly over a red button.
So you think the intention is to use the drones the same way in Utah as they are in Afghanistan? If our government is going to do that, I hate to tell you this, but they have a lot of other ways to kill you without using a drone if that's what they really want to do. The specifics of the technology are the least of your problems in that circumstance.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:26 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster

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So you think the intention is to use the drones the same way in Utah as they are in Afghanistan? If our government is going to do that, I hate to tell you this, but they have a lot of other ways to kill you without using a drone if that's what they really want to do. The specifics of the technology are the least of your problems in that circumstance.
Thats a silly reason to give up your freedoms without a fight.
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