[SolidGuy3]

SANDY, Ore. - A Clackamas County grand jury has decided that police officers involved in the fatal shooting of a Gresham man should not face criminal charges.

http://katu.com/stories/80629.html

[SolidGuy3]

This story really intrigued me. It seems like the man who was shot didn't act wild because he wanted to. I guess he was in a state of shock because his clothes caught on fire and he had to take them off. He panicked under the situation and I don't know how I would react if suddenly my clothes caught on fire. I don't understand why the police would shoot him if he was unarmed. I can understand the police not being charged, if I was a juror I would find them not guilty also because they didn't intentionally kill the man. I do feel sorry for the family because it was nothing the man did wrong. It's just unfortunate they couldn't taser him and get him under control.

[mgb]

Originally Posted by SolidGuy3

This story really intrigued me. It seems like the man who was shot didn't act wild because he wanted to. I guess he was in a state of shock because his clothes caught on fire and he had to take them off. He panicked under the situation and I don't know how I would react if suddenly my clothes caught on fire. I don't understand why the police would shoot him if he was unarmed. I can understand the police not being charged, if I was a juror I would find them not guilty also because they didn't intentionally kill the man. I do feel sorry for the family because it was nothing the man did wrong. It's just unfortunate they couldn't taser him and get him under control.

My wife works at the Nursery that this took place at. One of the cars this guy hit works at the office part of the nursery and if you watch KOIN last nite the second witness was the owner of the Nursery, Van Meter.

This wasn't about a guy on fire and being excited. He was acting weird before the accident and seem high. He was tasered a few times and when after he was shot and dying he just laugh. I read where the family tried to explain his actions through out the day but they were not there and obviously was just trying make excuses for his actions after the fact.

I do feel for the family as well as for the police that had to shoot him. It's easy to say they could have done it differently but unless you are in that situation you don't know how you'll react. The owner said he was tasered and just shook it off jump up ran towards a cop jumping on a car that was in his path and that's when they shot him. He seem to be in a manicac state and who knows what he might have done if he got hold of the cops gun?

Earlier in the day he was at Mt Hood CC spinning out and smoking eight cigs at once a security guard there said. At a store he over paid for some cigs and told the guy 'I'm not ok'. This is way before the accident and can't be explained away by a head injury during the accident.

Now the first witness did say that he ran out of the woods and jump up and kick him in the chest and he was able to grab his feet twist and the guy fell down and then ran off. He said he didn't think they should have shot him but he wasn't at the shooting itself.

I wish they'd release the report if he was on drugs or not because that'd settle a lot of this but from what I've read the cops don't release that because of privacy issues.

[DrewFix]

"Sources today confirm, a man high on drugs, was seen nude and weilding his genitals. Apparently earlier in the day he was seen high and claimed he 'was not alright'. Whitnesses did nothing to help the man, who in turn, later, caused a hit and run accident. Police arrived on the scene and shot the man, who seemed confused and disorientated and was nude with-out a weapon. It was also learned, that earlier in the day he was endangering innocent lives by smoking. Our thoughts today are with the officers who may, or may not have been scratched, bitten, subjected to second hand smoke or even spit upon."

now, the above is me being sarcastic, but i see no reason for this man to have been shot.

on a seperate note i just want to remind any one with Diabetes, or if you know some one with Diabetes to take care of themselves and to monitor their blood sugar levals, the police have guns and aren't afraid to use them.

[mgb]

Originally Posted by DrewFix

now, the above is me being sarcastic, but i see no reason for this man to have been shot.

on a seperate note i just want to remind any one with Diabetes, or if you know some one with Diabetes to take care of themselves and to monitor their blood sugar levals, the police have guns and aren't afraid to use them.

It's easy to make jokes, but this is pretty serious. The point about the cigs was only to show he wasn't behaving normally before the accident.

While low sugar can cause someone to be disoriented it doesn't make them attack people. There's a big difference from being disoriented and being aggressive to the point of saying you are going to kill someone and launching at said person.

I'd like to think they could have handled it without killing him, but as I said before it's really easy to sit back and make judgement when you are not the one that was there and had to make the split second decision.

[Paxil]

Someone I worked with would go loopy when his blood sugar got low... gone to cartoonland I would call it. Sometimes it was so bad he couldn't function and we had to call medial workers in because he wasn't able to give himself an insulin shot. When it first starts he just repeats himself a lot... but then he starts to feel threatened by everyone and everything before he finally checks out and just laughs at everything in a very silly cartoon-like voice. He has told me that he has been in quite a few fights at bars when in the 'threatened by everything' state. I've had other friends with diabetes and they never acted stangely at all. Anyway... he has a known condition and he knows how to take care of it if he wants to function in society, and I'm not sure who else to blame when he can't take care of it.

[Sheed30]

Yea, this is a sad story. My dad was friends with the family and everything. It seems like the whole story is not out.

[DrewFix]

Originally Posted by mgb

It's easy to make jokes, but this is pretty serious. The point about the cigs was only to show he wasn't behaving normally before the accident.

i wasn't joking. i was being sarcastic to make a point.

Originally Posted by mgb

While low sugar can cause someone to be disoriented it doesn't make them attack people. There's a big difference from being disoriented and being aggressive to the point of saying you are going to kill someone and launching at said person.

not really that much difference, it just depends on the severity of the persons insuline reaction, just like when people do drugs or drink. peoples bodies react differently in different situations.

Originally Posted by mgb

I'd like to think they could have handled it without killing him, but as I said before it's really easy to sit back and make judgement when you are not the one that was there and had to make the split second decision.

as i said above i see no reason this man had to be shot.
un-armed citizens are being shot(and killed), here in Oregon, at an alarming rate.
armed police officers are not.

[ProudBFan]

Not to be Debbie Downer here, but this really belongs in the OT forum.

PBF

[DrewFix]

Originally Posted by ProudBFan

Not to be Debbie Downer here, but this really belongs in the OT forum.

PBF

If Rosa Parks death is in the OT forum this thread should have been there.

[Sambonius]

Originally Posted by mgb

This wasn't about a guy on fire and being excited. He was acting weird before the accident and seem high. He was tasered a few times and when after he was shot and dying he just laugh. I read where the family tried to explain his actions through out the day but they were not there and obviously was just trying make excuses for his actions after the fact.

There is no reason to make excuses for the guys actions, he was probably high but why the **** did he have to get shot dead for it? If we shot dead everyone who acted odd on drugs then we would take quite a long time. The whole thing is just rediculous, I don't know how you can excuse the cops for shooting and killing a guy who had no weapon. You can't do that.

I do feel for the family as well as for the police that had to shoot him. It's easy to say they could have done it differently but unless you are in that situation you don't know how you'll react. The owner said he was tasered and just shook it off jump up ran towards a cop jumping on a car that was in his path and that's when they shot him. He seem to be in a manicac state and who knows what he might have done if he got hold of the cops gun?

Cops aren't supposed to fire on anyone who don't pose a serious threat, this guy didn't. I don't know why they couldn't have shot him in the leg or arm, why the hell did they have to shoot to kill? It makes no sense. You say what he might have done if he got a hold of a cops gun but you can say that for everyone the cops apprehend, it's a horrible argument and it still surprises me that cops get off for this garbage. Because a guy is high and acting odd you have to kill him? This is Abner Louilma all over again, just without the *** rape.

I wish they'd release the report if he was on drugs or not because that'd settle a lot of this but from what I've read the cops don't release that because of privacy issues.

I'm sure he was on drugs, but dammit the guy shouldn't have been killed over it. This is so sad how the "justice system" sticks up for these guys when they make a bad judgement.

[Paxil]

You really want cops to shoot 'not to kill'? Not me. Next thing you know they will be firing warning shots. =)

Sambonius, you are using hindsite to make a judgement about what they should have done... and with sketchy information from people not directly involved. That grand jury heard all the evidence and decided they were within their bounds... why isn't that good enough?

[Sambonius]

Originally Posted by Paxil

You really want cops to shoot 'not to kill'? Not me. Next thing you know they will be firing warning shots. =)

Sambonius, you are using hindsite to make a judgement about what they should have done... and with sketchy information from people not directly involved. That grand jury heard all the evidence and decided they were within their bounds... why isn't that good enough?

Because cops get off on murdering people without weapons all the time. There's a wink wink in the system and it's horrible. We can't say what YOU would have done because we're not cops and cops are held to a completely different standard than others. They are not supposed to shoot anyone who doesn't have a weapon and who is not a threat. What's the worst that could have happened? The guy would have attacked one of them and punched them, you don't need to KILL a man for that. They put 56 shots in Amadou Diallo and he had no weapon on him at all, he was a Hatian Immigrant. You know what? The cops got off on that too. And the cop who was the one who started firing on him is a guy who did the same thing not 8 months prior. He's killed 2 guys that were of no threat and had no weapons on them, and he's still a cop today. I have absolutely zero confidence in the justice system.

[Paxil]

"guy would have attacked one of them and punched them"

Or taken their weapon and killed them. I'm sure you seen videos where officers were killed when they were caught off guard and a criminal grabbed their gun. Do we really expect to ask them to 'just take a beating' because he really might not be trying to kill you? Nuts. I have a close friend who feels like you Sambonius... that all cops are bad corrupt and out to get you. I just don't prescribe to that.

[Sambonius]

Originally Posted by Paxil

"guy would have attacked one of them and punched them"

Or taken their weapon and killed them. I'm sure you seen videos where officers were killed when they were caught off guard and a criminal grabbed their gun. Do we really expect to ask them to 'just take a beating' because he really might not be trying to kill you? Nuts.

No, I don't expect them to take a beating. They have a variety of weapons at their disposal to defend themselves and put a threat down without killing them. They don't have to kill a guy because he MIGHT have attacked them.

I have a close friend who feels like you Sambonius... that all cops are bad corrupt and out to get you. I just don't prescribe to that.

I really don't believe all cops are bad and corrupt. I do believe however that there is a different justice system for them than the rest of the nation's citizens. Cops are people too and I understand that, but if they can't perform correctly on the job then they shouldn't be a cop at all. They make mistakes and just like me or you, they should be punished accordingly.