[Minstrel]

Originally Posted by alex

And, finally, the term "illegitimate" is a technical term used after b.astard (which originally meant the same thing) pejorized into its current meaning. For instance, the novel "******* out of Carolina" means that the author's mom was not married when she gave birth. Which is better?

I don't think he's arguing for one term over another. It seems to me that he's questioning the underlying assumption of either term that a birth means less or is more of a negative based on the legal "marriage" status of the parents.

If so, I'd agree with that. Births out of wedlock are not inherently problematic. Absentee parents are. The two are not the same.

[Redbeard]

Originally Posted by alex

The legitimacy rate was at around 81%, not over 90%, but it still was faaaaar higher then it is now despite blacks being much more free.

"What about the decline of the black family? In 1960, only 28 percent of black females between the ages of 15 and 44 were never married.

Today, it's 56 percent. In 1940, the illegitimacy rate among blacks was 19 percent, in 1960, 22 percent, and today, it's 70 percent. Some argue that the state of the black family is the result of the legacy of slavery, discrimination and poverty. That has to be nonsense. A study of 1880 family structure in Philadelphia shows that three-quarters of black families were nuclear families, comprised of two parents and children. In New York City in 1925, 85 percent of kin-related black households had two parents. In fact, according to Herbert Gutman in "The Black Family in Slavery and Freedom: 1750-1925," "Five in six children under the age of 6 lived with both parents." Therefore, if one argues that what we see today is a result of a legacy of slavery, discrimination and poverty, what's the explanation for stronger black families at a time much closer to slavery -- a time of much greater discrimination and of much greater poverty? I think that a good part of the answer is there were no welfare and Great Society programs."


link http://capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4255

Roddney, just curious, what type of an agenda am I pushing?

And, finally, the term "illegitimate" is a technical term used after b.astard (which originally meant the same thing) pejorized into its current meaning. For instance, the novel "******* out of Carolina" means that the author's mom was not married when she gave birth. Which is better?

Thanks for pulling up some research. It would also be interesting to see the same figures compiled for other nathionalities, white, latino, and asian. This subject has great bearing on our societies current state and I don't feel that it is racist to break out one nationality over another. Categorizing helps to determine what is causing the problems. Over the last 50 years, our society and families have become desensitized to the image of children with one parent and are more accepting of it. We now generally have more sympothy and support for people in these situations rather than pressuring them to be married.

Just curious, did anyone else notice that when the announcers were first talking about why Telfair was absent they just said "his girlfriend is having a baby." There was no comment about whether is was actually Sebastians kid until the article in the paper the next day stated that they were both having a baby. Maybe I just took it wrong, but I remember it being strange the way tehy were stating it. Like it was intentionally worded.

[The Sebastian Express]

http://www.isteve.com/2003_Black_Ill...e_Declines.htm

The good news from the federal government's preliminary birthrate data for 2002 is that the black illegitimacy rate has not only stopped getting worse, but it is now in a gradual decline. Last year, 68.0 percent of the black women who had babies were unmarried, down from 68.4 percent in 2001. The peak was 70.4 percent in 1994.

Indeed, the illegitimacy rate among non-Hispanic whites (22.9 percent in 2002, up from 22.5 percent the previous year) is now higher than that 22 percent black rate of four decades ago. By way of contrast, the white illegitimacy rate was 16.9 percent in 1990, and only 1.9 percent back in 1956.

Although Hispanics are widely considered morally traditionalist, their illegitimacy rate is almost midway between the white and black rates. It grew to 43.4 percent in 2002, up from 42.5 percent in 2001 and 37.6 percent in 1990, the first year the government kept separate statistics on the Hispanic category.

Although the black illegitimacy rate is higher, because Latinos are more fertile than blacks, there are now almost as many illegitimate children born to Hispanics (379,000 in 2002) as to blacks (402,000). The largest number of illegitimate children is still born to non-Hispanic whites (528,000), but if current trends continue, Hispanics will account for the largest number of illegitimate babies within a decade.

Northeast Asians have the lowest illegitimacy rate among Americans, with both Chinese and Japanese being under ten percent in 2000, the latest year for which data on Asians are available.

The article goes on to give information on the highest percentages by state, and such.

[Talkhard]

Good grief! That's the best example I've ever seen of twisting and distorting statistics.

So black illegitimacy has dropped by .4 percent over 3 years?? That's almost meaningless from a statistical point of view. It could be the result of flawed survey methods, for all we know. The point is, black illegitimacy is still way out of control--and much higher than it is in other populations.

And white illegitimacy is higher than black illegitimacy was four decades ago? That's hardly surprising, given how much the culture has changed in those forty years. Lack of personal responsibility has become a plague in this country, and it affects every ethnic group--though some more than others, obviously.

Almost as many illegitimate babies born to hispanics as to blacks? That's also hardly surprising, since hispanices are the largest minority group in the country by far. This statistic actually supports the fact that illegitimacy is a huge problem among blacks, since they outpace even the hispanics, who make up a much larger percentage of the U.S. population!

There are more illegitimate births among the white population than any other? No kidding! Whites make up the largest percentage of the population--their size dwarfs that of blacks. It's no wonder that the total number of illegitimate births would be highest among whites. This is only common sense.

[SodaPopinski]

Someone please wake me up from this nightmare and tell me there aren't actually people who would even bother posting something like this. Pure hatred for people of different backgrounds and skin color? Why? Why not purely hate the personality of someone who would abandon their child? There are plenty of white, Asian, Latino, etc. dead-beat dads out there. Somehow turning that into a racial issue is beyond me.

We have a long way to go, folks.

-Pop

[zagsfan20]

Originally Posted by SodaPopinski

Someone please wake me up from this nightmare and tell me there aren't actually people who would even bother posting something like this. Pure hatred for people of different backgrounds and skin color? Why? Why not purely hate the personality of someone who would abandon their child? There are plenty of white, Asian, Latino, etc. dead-beat dads out there. Somehow turning that into a racial issue is beyond me.

We have a long way to go, folks.

-Pop

I'm not so sure that its pure hatred rather than prevalent true facts....

On the other hand, I'm not sure why Telfair has anything to do with illigimate black children...He and his girlfriend have been with each other for years and are engaged.....its not like Telfair just knocked her up on a road trip and doesn't want anything to do with her and the baby...

[SodaPopinski]

Originally Posted by zagsfan20

I'm not so sure that its pure hatred rather than prevalent true facts....

There are plenty of facts to support all kinds of things that can be read one way or another. The tone of the post was just stupid. It was baiting and purely racist.

Do black people commit more crimes than white people? Do Latinos fall below the poverty line more than other ethnic backgrounds? Perhaps. But that doesn't have anything to do with someone being a certain race or ethnicity. That's just ignorance to look at it that way.

And if what I'm saying doesn't make any sense to you, then I'm done with this argument, because you're beyond help.

-Pop

[Blazer Ringbearer]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

I never said they were safe from anything. Obviously a father of any color or ethnicity can leave his children. My point (which you apparently missed) is that the problem of fatherless children is rampant in the black community. Any anecdotal evidence of white men leaving their children doesn't change that.

Quit pretending like you care about black people. You're just using other people's plight as an excuse to spout off righteous BS.

If you care so much about illegitimate black children, why don't you get off your *** and do something about it - become a mentor, adopt a black child, whatever... spreading blame around isn't helping anybody.

[zagsfan20]

Here is Canzano's opinion about this situation in his blog

[deanwoof]

black people suck
asian people suck
latino people suck
white people are perfect

happy talkhard?