[sa1177]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

For someone who lived in the Middle East, you seem woefully ignorant about Muslim attitudes toward terrorism. Palestine, I hate to remind you, is a hotbed of terrorist worship. According to the head of the Community Training and Crisis Management Center in the Gaza Strip, in 2003 the percentage of young Palestinians who want to be martyrs rose from 71 percent to 79 percent. That's about 8 out of 10 kids who want to be suicide bombers! And yes, they have posters of terrorists on the walls of the schools in Palestine, especially those run by the United Nations.

But approval of terrorism runs deep in most Muslim countries. According to the Council on Foreign Relations, majorities or near majorities in countries like Lebanon, Pakistan, Indonesia, and Morocco approve of such attacks. In Jordan last year, support for suicide bombings rose by 14 points, to 57% of the population, according to a poll in USA Today.

I could go on, but I don't have the time or the interest to correct all of your misconceptions about the Middle East. But if you're interested, there is plenty of information available to get you up to speed.

As you will note I mentioned Palestine as being a place where terrorism is unfortunately acceptable. So I am not sure of the point of your post here as I already conceded Palestine to you.

So congrats you found 1 country out of countless that supports your skewed thinking. If you could provide evidence that even half of these countries have problems similar to Palestine then I might tend to agree with you. So I ask where is your evidence about Syria, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Oman, Egypt, Jordan, Israel, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, UAE, Kuwait, Uzbeckistan, Lebanon or Yemen? Generally when trying to make a point such as wide ranging as yours a ratio of 1 out of 18 isn't very good.

Also wouldn't you think that Palestine's terrorist movements / efforts are probably directed more towards Israel then the U.S.?

It's funny you mention these "polls" and "information" yet you never provide a citation for any of it. Kind of hard to do I imagine when most of what you are saying is complete BS so I suppose that explains it.

Oh and on a hilarious side note..none of the countries you mentioned (see bold in quote) with the exception of Lebanon are even considered Middle Eastern countries. You might at least want to learn the demographic you are talking about before attempting to appear educated about it.

And you suggest I should do some reading. Here is a map and list so you can properly learn what countries constitute the Middle East.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...magesr&start=2

[Talkhard]

As you will note I mentioned Palestine as being a place where terrorism is unfortunately acceptable. So I am not sure of the point of your post here as I already conceded Palestine to you.

Actually, you said, "I might concede the case of the Palestinians but that is even tennuos at best." "Tenuous" (I assume that's the word you were trying for) means flimsy or weak, so you were obviously arguing that the case for terrorist worship in Palestine was a very weak one. Now that I have proved you are wrong, you are conceding the point. Thank you.

No, I didn't mention every country in the Middle East. Generally, one does not have to cite every single state in the U.S. to get an idea of what people think, so it's hardly necessary in this case. However, in Saudi Arabia, one poll after 9/11 showed that 95% of educated men between 25 and 41 supported bin Laden's suicide terrorists.http://cfrterrorism.org/coalition/saudiarabia2.html

And in Turkey almost a third of the population approves of the suicide bombings against Americans and other westerners. http://people-press.org/reports/disp...3?ReportID=206

While it's true that support of terrorism seems to have waned in some parts of the Middle East, it is still supported by significant percentages of the population in many countries, even in a democracy like Turkey. That is cause for concern, in my opinion.

none of the countries you mentioned (see bold in quote) with the exception of Lebanon are even considered Middle Eastern countries.

I'm well aware of which countries are in the Middle East. That's why I described the countries I listed as "Muslim countries." Instead of supplying me with a map, maybe you should just read my posts a little more carefully.

[crandc]

I don't get it. What does Talkhard's fulminations about Muslims (whose fundamentalist wing agree with him on gay rights, that they should not exist) have to do with the illegal weapons supposedly being found in Iraq? Is this another time when Talkhard makes a wild statement that he can't back up so he just keeps piling on unrelated and wilder statements?
So, illegal weapons belonging to the former regime were found in Iraq? Where are the headlines? The speeches by Bush, Cheney, Rice? The congressional resolutions? The photographs? Is the "liberal" (no doubt Jewish, right?) media in a massive conspiracy to not report it?
And why does even Bush say the weapons were not there but it doesn't matter?

[handclap problematic]

So you can make fun of Ashura....yet you never seem to bring up the christians in the Phillipines who hang themselves on crosses in semblance of what Jsus went through. Or of catholics who flog themselves. It was mentioned earlier that most muslims during Ashura use paint to symbolize blood. And yes, westerners sybolize blood all the time through drinking wine. And guess what? In the Phillipines, those nails are really driven through hands and feet..... interesting huh?


Prunetang

[sa1177]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

Actually, you said, "I might concede the case of the Palestinians but that is even tennuos at best." "Tenuous" (I assume that's the word you were trying for) means flimsy or weak, so you were obviously arguing that the case for terrorist worship in Palestine was a very weak one. Now that I have proved you are wrong, you are conceding the point. Thank you.

No, I didn't mention every country in the Middle East. Generally, one does not have to cite every single state in the U.S. to get an idea of what people think, so it's hardly necessary in this case. However, in Saudi Arabia, one poll after 9/11 showed that 95% of educated men between 25 and 41 supported bin Laden's suicide terrorists.http://cfrterrorism.org/coalition/saudiarabia2.html

And in Turkey almost a third of the population approves of the suicide bombings against Americans and other westerners. http://people-press.org/reports/disp...3?ReportID=206

While it's true that support of terrorism seems to have waned in some parts of the Middle East, it is still supported by significant percentages of the population in many countries, even in a democracy like Turkey. That is cause for concern, in my opinion.


I'm well aware of which countries are in the Middle East. That's why I described the countries I listed as "Muslim countries." Instead of supplying me with a map, maybe you should just read my posts a little more carefully.

Interesting information on Saudi Arabia yet I fail to see how this information or the information you provided on Turkey etc. speaks for the entire Muslim World. If you hadn't made such a broad generalization initially then I might take more stock in this information providing validity to your arguements. Still I appreciate the links since they provide information I haven't seen before.

I do find some fault in your arguement of likening the Muslim world to the United States for the purpose of gauging public oppinion. You must admit the United States is quite a bit more autonomous then the Muslim world which is constituted of multiple nations not to mention multiple Muslim sects. Would you gauge U.S. public oppinion on a issue by simply polling people in Ohio, WA and TX for instance. You are right that you don't need to poll every state / nation to get a accurate view of the whole but 1/18 or 3/18 (if you add Turkey and Saudi Arabia along with Palestine) doesn't provide enough to convince me all Muslim states are terrorists.

You're right to be concerned about certain Muslim states for sure but to blanket all Muslims and their religion as you did below just isn't right.

Millions of stark raving mad Muslims

A religion based on the idea of destroying western civilization

Not Western civilization but any civilization...jihad = imperialism as I said earlier. No where in Islam does it say "destroy the west." Jihad simply propagates the spread of Islam by conquest. No different then what missionaries attempted to do with Christianity.

An intense hatred of our ally Israel.

Of course they hate Israel...remember Israel did basically take a piece of their land for nothing.

A worship of violence and suicide bombers

No where in the Quran or Islam does it suggest doing this...certain Muslims may support terrorism and violence to suggest they "worship" or that it is in anyway ingrained in their religion is just silly.

A disregard for the rights of women

Discussed in a earlier post.

A culture still buried in the dark ages.

A culture buried in the dark ages according to American society and standards. These people are not American, whose to say we should be holding them to our standards?

[Talkhard]

So you can make fun of Ashura....yet you never seem to bring up the christians in the Phillipines who hang themselves on crosses in semblance of what Jsus went through. Or of catholics who flog themselves.

The Christians in the Phillipines and the Catholics who flog themselves pose no threat to the U.S. The muslim fundamentalists, however, pose a very real threat to us. That's why it's important to know who they are, what they believe, and the level of their zeal. And that's why I posted the pictures of Ashura.

[Talkhard]

No where in Islam does it say "destroy the west." Jihad simply propagates the spread of Islam by conquest. No different then what missionaries attempted to do with Christianity.

Wow. Is that ever a mass of contradictions.

First of all, if Jihad is "the spread of Islam by conquest," then it is obviously a threat to America. Who do you think is #1 on the muslims' most-hated list? What do you think "conquest" means? Who do you think they would most like to conquer, if not America?? This is a simple equation. Conquest=destruction.

And the muslim version of "conquest" is FAR different than what Christian missionaries are doing every day around the world. They are simply preaching and teaching their version of truth--they are not trying to overthrow other governments. More importantly, they don't believe that you must kill your enemy if he doesn't convert to your religion. That is what the Koran teaches.