[MARIS61]

[Ed O]

Originally Posted by MARIS61

You are correct that it is new.

On the other hand, I have hunted for 43 years during which time many new tags and licenses have evolved into being, always were printed in the hunting synopsis and newspapers months ahead of their creation and darned if I never hunted without the proper ones.

Maybe the average American is simply smarter than Cheney and his entire staff.

I can believe that but, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

If ignorance of the law is REALLY "no excuse", then why is the state of Texas just writing warnings for offenders?

Even if ignorance of the law is not an excuse, it doesn't mean that a violation of this rule is a big deal, substantively or procedurally.

Cheney relies on his staff, and his staff allegedly offered to purchase any and all needed tags/stamps/whatever. How and why would staff members that asked for all necessary stamps and authorization know that they were missing a $7 stamp?

I don't think that this has anything to do with being smart or being evil or being competent. It's just a mistake by people well down the food chain. A mistake that had no impact on anyone's lives and is insignificant.

It seems to me that it would be fair to look at some people's reaction to this and wonder whether all of the other stuff that Cheney gets blamed for is blown wildly out of proportion, as well.

Ed O.

[Talkhard]

It seems to me that it would be fair to look at some people's reaction to this and wonder whether all of the other stuff that Cheney gets blamed for is blown wildly out of proportion, as well.

Of course it is. Liberals have two main fantasies about the White House: Bush is an idiot who can barely tie his own shoes and Cheney is an evil despot who is telling him what to do. Those are their "talking points," and they're sticking with them regardless of the facts. It's about their only strategy because they have no new ideas and all their old ideas are bankrupt.

You can bet your bottom dollar that most liberals are secretly hoping this guy dies so they can call Cheney a murderer and use this tragic accident for their own political gain.

[Stepping Razor]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

Of course it is. Liberals have two main fantasies about the White House: Bush is an idiot who can barely tie his own shoes and Cheny is an evil despot who is telling him what to do. Those are their "talking points," and they're sticking with them regardless of the facts. It's about their only strategy because they have no new ideas and all their old ideas are bankrupt.

You can bet your bottom dollar that most liberals are secretly hoping this guy dies so they can call Cheney a murderer and use this tragic accident for their own political gain.

Well, I personally am really more of a leftist than a liberal, really, so I suppose your ill-founded stereotypes don't techinically apply to me, but I am nevertheless offended that you would come on here and insinuate that I would hope for the death of an innocent man if it would help further my political "agenda."

How dare you come on here and tell me what I think? Especially when you're 100% wrong. I read your posts so often claiming that "liberals" must be thinking this, obsessing over that, etc. And it's always total BS. You have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Maybe you should try actually listening to what liberals say, try to understand why they're so angry rather than just dismissing them as unhinged just because they're liberals. You obviously wouldn't have to agree with them, but it would be a useful mental exercise for you to wrestle with what they actually think rather than some absurd straw-man caricature of it. (You might consider trying the same concept with the other groups you hate and demonize -- Muslims, gays, and blacks come to mind.)

And although the substance of your post is really beneath contempt and hardly worthy of reply...

I find it bizarre that people are so fixated on this one accident when there are so many other acts of deliberate malfeasance on the part of this administration. This incident would rank about #7,654 on my list of reasons to criticize this administration. I do think that Cheney shooting a friend in the face, then sending out his spokesmen to insinuate that the guy he shot was at fault, may be indicative of some broad character flaws in the man, or at the very least it's more proof that Dick Cheney is an *** hole. But I don't think it's a political issue. And -- as it should go without saying to anyone who hasn't demonized all liberals as evil scum -- I hope that the old man who Dick Cheney shot in the face will recover fully and get out of the hospital soon.

Stepping Razor

[Talkhard]

Maybe you should try actually listening to what liberals say, try to understand why they're so angry

I lived in the San Francisco area and attended UC Berkeley for 5 years, so I know the liberal philosophy very well. All my professors were liberals, and so were most of my classmates and acquaintances. They were very angry people back then, long before George Bush came to office. They are constantly looking for grievances, and they relish any opportunity to bash their own government. Right now they are extra angry because they've been out of power for so long.

This incident would rank about #7,654 on my list of reasons to criticize this administration.

Exactly. See above.

[Stepping Razor]

There you go again...

[mook]

Originally Posted by Stepping Razor

Well, I could care less about whether Cheney had the right stamps or whatever. I think this focus on whether he broke this minor law or not is totally misguided in this case.

And I can accept that accidents happen in hunting, and that this was just a sad accident.

But, seriously, what kind of sick person accidentally shoots someone in the face, then goes into hiding while sending out his minions to spread the word through the press that it was all somehow the fault of the guy who got shot?

Rank incompetence, compounded by excessive secrecy, compounded again by a pathological inability to accept responsibility for mistakes.

I guess this little incident was pretty much par for the course for the last five years, eh?

Stepping Razor

ditto.

who cares about the stamp? a man was shot by the VP of the United States.

he had a heart attack as a result.

it took way too long for the news to come out.

when it did, it was released by a private citizen to the local paper, not by the administration.

even now, days after the incident, the Veep refuses to talk to the public about it or issue any admission of a mistake.

these are the facts, and it's getting silly at almost a Monica Lewinski level. I think conservatives are at the point many of us liberals were at when the stained dress came out. you just have to shrug, smile, and say, "Yikes."

arguing about the stamp is like arguing about whether Monica's friend with the tape recorder was ***** or not. it's kind of immaterial to the real point.

[It's_GO_Time]

Originally Posted by Ed O

Cheney relies on his staff Ed O.

Enough said.

[MARIS61]

Originally Posted by Ed O

It's just a mistake by people well down the food chain.

It seems to me that it would be fair to look at some people's reaction to this and wonder whether all of the other stuff that Cheney gets blamed for is blown wildly out of proportion, as well.

Ed O.

Nice to know that we're governed by a guy who relies on "people well down the food chain" to keep things legal and correct.

And you're right about the other things Cheney is to blame for being blown out of proportion.

We've only lost a few thousand sons, daughters, fathers and mothers in Iraq.

No big deal.

[Talkhard]

Nice to know that we're governed by a guy who relies on "people well down the food chain" to keep things legal and correct.

We're not "governed" by the VP, despite some people's crazy fantasies about Cheney running the White House. But as a matter of fact, all Presidents, VPs, Representatives, and Senators rely on people in their chain of command to make sure all the details are taken care of. Once again, you are latching onto a supposed flaw in Cheney to score political points.

And you're right about the other things Cheney is to blame for being blown out of proportion. We've only lost a few thousand sons, daughters, fathers and mothers in Iraq.

HAAAA-HAAAA. So you think Cheney ordered the troops into Iraq? My god, you better brush up on your civics. You seem to know nothing about the role of the VP.

By the way, we've probably lost 10 times as many Americans to drunk driving accidents in the last 3 years as we have soldiers in Iraq. Same goes for those who have died from cigarette smoking. Why don't you take some of your anger about the war and direct it to the alcohol and tobacco companies who are killing millions of Americans every year? Now THAT'S a tragedy.

[Ed O]

Originally Posted by MARIS61

Nice to know that we're governed by a guy who relies on "people well down the food chain" to keep things legal and correct.

I don't know what your point is. Delegation is critical for any leader, and when you're at the level of the VP of the United States it must be even moreso. Especially when you're dealing with something as routine as bird hunting.

And you're right about the other things Cheney is to blame for being blown out of proportion.

We've only lost a few thousand sons, daughters, fathers and mothers in Iraq.

No big deal.

Even assuming Cheney's responsible for sending men and women to Iraq to fight and die, your example doesn't really impact me at all. The military exists to fight and to die at the discretion of the people of the US through their elected Commander in Chief. You might disagree with the decision to send troops, either in this case or in general, and that's cool.

I think that mixing up political and strategic decisions with calls of illegalities and incompetence dilutes the legitimate political points that some people have with Cheney and the White House.

Ed O.

[It's_GO_Time]

Originally Posted by Ed O

I don't know what your point is. Delegation is critical for any leader, and when you're at the level of the VP of the United States it must be even moreso. Especially when you're dealing with something as routine as bird hunting.
Ed O.

If delegation is so critical, you would think Cheney would pick his "delegation" more wisely.

[Ed O]

Originally Posted by Kiss_My_Darius

If delegation is so critical, you would think Cheney would pick his "delegation" more wisely.

Why? Nobody's perfect, and it seems to me that reasonable steps were taken to get Cheney authorization to hunt. A blank check was given to the state, essentially, to ensure that everything was taken care of. Cheney's ultimately responsible for the failure of the state to sell him the $7 stamp, but it's a de minimus matter.

The only people that care are the people who are convinced that Cheney's a bad person.

Ed O.