[drexlersdad]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

The Founding Fathers objected to the institution of a state religion--but they never intended that God should be completely removed from public discourse, as the Left would have you believe. In fact, just the opposite. George Washington wrote in his 1789 Inaugural address: "The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained." Patrick Henry said that, "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ." John Adams wrote that, "Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone, which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand." And James Madison wrote that, "We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

and they also bought and sold human beings

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by Stevenson

Under you beloved leader, we are not at peace, we have no fiscal sanity, we aliented all allies, and we polllute the planet. If those are great values, then heaven help us.

Ah, so we have to be "at peace" constantly? Nobody told that to Roosevelt, a Democrat, who got us into WWII. And no one apparently told Truman, Kennedy, and LBJ, all Democrats, who escalated the war in Vietnam. And even under Clinton we bombed Kosovo, the Sudan, and Iraq. Under those "beloved" Democrat presidents we weren't at peace, either. You better get your facts straight.

Fiscal sanity? Perhaps you missed the news last week that tax revenues are much higher than expected for 2005, and the budget deficit has been reduced. But during a time of war there is always more spending. War is expensive, that's just the way it is. Ask Truman, LBJ, and Kennedy, who oversaw huge expenditures for the war in Vietnam.

Alienated all allies? That's a lie. Poland, Italy, Australia, and Britain are all with us on the war. Besides, our purpose as a nation is not to avoid alienating allies at all cost--it's to do what we feel is right, and in our best interests.

We're polluting the planet? Wake up and smell the roses. We've been polluting the planet for a long long time, under both Democrat and Republican presidents. You ought to go to China, however, and see the way they pollute the planet. Puts us to shame.

If you think it's bad now, you must have forgotten how bad it was under Bill Clinton. Throughout his eight years in office, Clinton applied a ruthless sanctions regime that took the lives of at least half a million Iraqi children. And in Iraq and beyond, he displayed indifference to human rights and the suffering of innocents. On his watch, military aid to Turkey, engaged in a scorched earth campaign against its Kurdish minority, and to Colombia, conducting a dirty war against left-wing insurgents, skyrocketed. And hundreds of thousands perished in Rwanda without Clinton lifting a finger--though he found time to bomb a pharmaceutical plant in Sudan that his officials falsely alleged was producing chemical weapons.

Yep, under Clinton we were all proud to be Americans!

[sa1177]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

Ah, so we have to be "at peace" constantly? Nobody told that to Roosevelt, a Democrat, who got us into WWII. And no one apparently told Truman, Kennedy, and LBJ, all Democrats, who escalated the war in Vietnam. And even under Clinton we bombed Kosovo, the Sudan, and Iraq. Under those "beloved" Democrat presidents we weren't at peace, either. You better get your facts straight.

Are you serious? We got into WWII due to the bombing of Pearl Harbor and the mass genocide instigated by the Nazi regime. Under Clinton we may have bombed Kosovo, Iraq and Afganistant but we didn't sit around and allow American men and women to be killed trying to perform a mission that is no longer necessary and was never justified.

As for Vietnam...well we all know that was mistake, you would think Mr. Bush and his fool cronies would have learned from it.

Fiscal sanity? Perhaps you missed the news last week that tax revenues are much higher than expected for 2005, and the budget deficit has been reduced. But during a time of war there is always more spending. War is expensive, that's just the way it is. Ask Truman, LBJ, and Kennedy, who oversaw huge expenditures for the war in Vietnam.

Just about the funniest thing I have seen in a long long time...you do realize the National deficit is the highest it has ever been and that it continues to rise at the highest rate ever, 1.69 Billion dollars as day. If the debt is decreasing why did Bushy just sign a bill to raise the National debt ceiling?

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

Alienated all allies? That's a lie. Poland, Italy, Australia, and Britain are all with us on the war. Besides, our purpose as a nation is not to avoid alienating allies at all cost--it's to do what we feel is right, and in our best interests.

Yeh we should do what we feel is right, who cares what the rest of the world thinks. U.S. support for the War is at a alltime low. Britain is the only country in the world which has mantained consistent support for U.S. operations in Iraq. Unfortunately you info here is way outdated..Poland began pulling it's troops out of Iraq in January of 05 and completed doing so near the beginning of this year. Italy began it's pullouts of troops in Agust of 05 and now has less then 2000 troops stationed in the region. Australia has a minimum number of troops in the region numbering somewhere around 750 total. In July 2005 John Reid British Secretary of defense signed a bill to begin the withdrawl of British troops to be completed by 2007. Take a look..support is at all time low.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita..._coalition.htm

We're polluting the planet? Wake up and smell the roses. We've been polluting the planet for a long long time, under both Democrat and Republican presidents. You ought to go to China, however, and see the way they pollute the planet. Puts us to shame.

This might be the funniest asseration of all...you do realize that the United States is by far the biggest polluter in the modern world. China lead the U.S. in Carbon Dioxide emission and that's it.

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/25b/index-f.html
http://www.worldpollution.com/

If you think it's bad now, you must have forgotten how bad it was under Bill Clinton. Throughout his eight years in office, Clinton applied a ruthless sanctions regime that took the lives of at least half a million Iraqi children. And in Iraq and beyond, he displayed indifference to human rights and the suffering of innocents. On his watch, military aid to Turkey, engaged in a scorched earth campaign against its Kurdish minority, and to Colombia, conducting a dirty war against left-wing insurgents, skyrocketed. And hundreds of thousands perished in Rwanda without Clinton lifting a finger--though he found time to bomb a pharmaceutical plant in Sudan that his officials falsely alleged was producing chemical weapons.

Yep, under Clinton we were all proud to be Americans!

lol...typical..run and bash Clinton when you have nothing better to say. A half million children in Iraq dead? Pray please tells us where you come up with these numbers? Last time i checked Clinton's war in Colombbia was against the Colombian drug cartels not "left wing insurgents."
You don't think the same violence and genocide that occurred in Rwanda during the Clinton years isn't still occuring now in Sudan, Rwanda, Zaire and the Congo? The U.S. has turned a blind eye to the African continent for decades...it certainly wasn't Clinton's doing.

[It's_GO_Time]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

Yep, under Clinton we were all proud to be Americans!

I thought it was cool that you just went to Thailand. Visiting a third world country like that makes me think you have traveled to various places in the world.

Have you noticed a differnce in attitude towards Americans since Bush has been president? I bring this up because of the last above statement.

I love to travel and went to many areas of the world while Clinton was President. Since Bush has been President, I have been limited to where I travel due to countries attitudes about Americans and what my travel agent advises me is safe and not safe.

This just never seem to be an issue with Clinton. In fact when I travel now, I'm sometimes embarrassed to admit I'm American . . . again something that never was an issue under the Clinton era.

[mook]

I love to travel and went to many areas of the world while Clinton was President. Since Bush has been President, I have been limited to where I travel due to countries attitudes about Americans and what my travel agent advises me is safe and not safe.

I've certainly noticed that too. Even when I was last in England, a rock-solid ally of ours in Iraq, I was surprised at how many really didn't like America compared to prior trips.

About a month ago on the Daily Show Jon Stewart talked about how during the World Cup all the team buses proudly displayed their flag, including Iran. The lone exception? The United States. We went completely incognito. Sad that we've sunk so low in world opinion that the Iranian flag is more welcome than our own.

[sa1177]

Originally Posted by mook

I've certainly noticed that too. Even when I was last in England, a rock-solid ally of ours in Iraq, I was surprised at how many really didn't like America compared to prior trips.

About a month ago on the Daily Show Jon Stewart talked about how during the World Cup all the team buses proudly displayed their flag, including Iran. The lone exception? The United States. We went completely incognito. Sad that we've sunk so low in world opinion that the Iranian flag is more welcome than our own.

I will never forget something said to me by a tour bus driver in Austria when I was visiting during the Clinton Administration..."Americans should be thankful if the biggest problem in their country is the president getting a blowjob from a intern."

I wonder what that fellow would say now..

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by Kiss_My_Darius

Have you noticed a differnce in attitude towards Americans since Bush has been president?

No. I've been in Spain, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Monaco, Germany, Poland, the Czech Republic, Thailand, China, Laos, and Japan since Bush was president, and no one has ever said a negative thing about our president or our country. In fact, just the opposite. When I was in Poland, people were telling me how much they loved the U.S. In Germany, when a man found out I was an American he told me how horrible the terrorists of 9/11 were. In Thailand a couple of weeks ago, one of our cab drivers said, "America Number One!"

We are leading the world in the fight against terrorism, and the world knows it. That's one more thing to be proud of as an American.

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by sa1177

lol...typical..run and bash Clinton when you have nothing better to say.

Typical lies by you. I had plenty of "better things to say" in that post, and I only ended with Clinton. It's always relevant to compare a president to his predecessor, especially when the mistakes of his predecessor are always ignored by those who would tear him down.

[BlazeTop]

Originally Posted by Kiss_My_Darius

Appreciate the 'heads up" on the DeFazio/Feldkamp election. I'll be watching that one.

I agree that the state is becoming very close when it comes to a democratic or republican state. Oregon was considered a swing state in the last presidential election . . . a very little swing given the number of our electorial votes, but it was consider a swing state.

No prob, actually had Feldkamp as an instructor for a Counter-Terrorism class (Falls under Criminal Justice, FYI). Very upbeat and very "working class orienated". Wasn't afraid of criticizing Republicans in Washington, especially over the leak of Plame's name. (Feldkamp worked for the FBI in COunter-Terrorism, so he really can appreciate the seriousness of leaking an undercover agent's name).

Had DeFazio come twice to my PS classes, each time came across as a bitter and angry man. Is very middle of the road on some things (Voted against Assault Rifle Ban, Moderate solution to Social Security) but is EXTREMELY left when it comes to Iraq. He has the most liberial war related voting record of any congressman. But he does a lot for the community in whenever congress gives themself a raise, he puts a majority of his raise into a scholarship fund.

Overall this election is very issue specific, they are two very unique canidates, and as of now as an Independent voter, I am currently leaning towards Feldkamp..

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by mook

About a month ago on the Daily Show Jon Stewart talked about how during the World Cup all the team buses proudly displayed their flag, including Iran. The lone exception? The United States. We went completely incognito.

Jon Stewart said something derogatory about the U.S.? What a shock!

Sad that we've sunk so low in world opinion that the Iranian flag is more welcome than our own

Where you got that idea I have no clue. It certainly doesn't follow from the Jon Stewart statement.

[mediocre man]

I'd like to agree that we are not as accepted throughout the world now that Bush is in office. I travel once or twice a year overseas and I am definately not looked upon with the same respect now that Bush is in office. People loved the fact that Clinton was a perv, and teased me endlessly, but now people treat my wife and I as bad people almost because of Bush.

[Stevenson]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

No. I've been in Spain, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Monaco, Germany, Poland, the Czech Republic, Thailand, China, Laos, and Japan since Bush was president, and no one has ever said a negative thing about our president or our country. In fact, just the opposite. When I was in Poland, people were telling me how much they loved the U.S. In Germany, when a man found out I was an American he told me how horrible the terrorists of 9/11 were. In Thailand a couple of weeks ago, one of our cab drivers said, "America Number One!"

B.S.

Everyone here has noticed that it is harder to travel as an American these days, myself included, but you somehow are the only one who has the opposite experience. And of course, this phenomenon has been reported widely. The previous posters worldcup fact is proof enough, however sad.

I don't mind your rhetoric pal, but I call B.S on lies.