[Dan]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

You guys are the ones mixing things together. I was always talking only about deaths of U.S. soldiers, and then you threw in total number of deaths, including civilians (using a figure that is highly disputed by the way, but nonethless . . . )

I'm just saying that if you're going to throw in all the deaths that have occurred in Iraq since the war started, then I could also throw in all the deaths that have occured in the U.S. during the same time period, which includes those caused by drug overdose, domestic violence, etc.

I will restate my original point, just for clarity. An American citizen walking through the inner cities of our country, puts his life at risk as much or more than an American soldier in Iraq. I believe the statistics bear that out.

yep, you are correct. all those american hating liberals would be killing those US soliders like all those terrorists in Iraq are doing.

your logic is absolutely flawless.




if you're a complete ****ing moron.

[barfo]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

I will restate my original point, just for clarity. An American citizen walking through the inner cities of our country, puts his life at risk as much or more than an American soldier in Iraq. I believe the statistics bear that out.

That is simply false. Using your figures (except for this one: 130,000 US soldiers in Iraq), we
have:

768/130,000 = 0.0059 >> (194+352+344+198+72)/10,000,000 = 0.0001

According to those numbers, Iraq is 59 times more dangerous than the 5 cities you named.
You can't count the Iraqi population of 26 million if you aren't going to consider their deaths.

barfo

[Dan]

Originally Posted by barfo

That is simply false. Using your figures (except for this one: 130,000 US soldiers in Iraq), we
have:

768/130,000 = 0.0059 >> (194+352+344+198+72)/10,000,000 = 0.0001

According to those numbers, Iraq is 59 times more dangerous than the 5 cities you named.
You can't count the Iraqi population of 26 million if you aren't going to consider their deaths.

barfo

and the smack down award goes (again) too...


(drumroll please)


barfo!


talkhard, please do us all a favor (esp yourself). Quit.

[Stepping Razor]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

An American citizen walking through the inner cities of our country, puts his life at risk as much or more than an American soldier in Iraq. I believe the statistics bear that out.

Then you flunk middle-school math.

Even using your own cherry-picked numbers:

768 deaths/year in a population of 130,000 US troops in Iraq = 1 fatality per 169 population

1150 deaths/year in a population of 10 million Americans in scary cities = 1 fatality per 7,826 population.

Yep, Iraq sure looks safe to me.

And that doesn't even account for the 90% of American casualties that are not fatalities, many of whom will be horribly disabled for life.

And that doesn't even account for the 650,000 Iraqis who have died as a result of the war.

Honorable people can disagree about the merits and demerits of the war, about the best way to try to improve the situation, etc. Honorable people don't just make **** up.

Stepping Razor

[HB]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

Some interesting facts about the death figures from Iraq versus our own murder statistics here at home.

The average number of deaths of U.S. soldiers per year in Iraq is 768 (or 64 per month).

http://www.boston.com/news/world/mid...n.com+%2F+News

However, the murder rate in America puts the death rate in Iraq to shame.

According to figures released by the FBI, in 2005 . . .

Washington D.C. had 194 murders

Chicago had 352

Philadelphia had 334

Los Angeles (in only the first half of 2005) had 198

Compton, CA, had 72

That's 1150 murders in one year, in only 5 American cities. That death rate is much higher than the yearly average of deaths in Iraq since 2003. The above list does not include some of the most dangerous cities in the country, including Detroit, Philly, New York, Atlanta, Camden, N.J. or St. Louis, which was just declared the most dangerous city in the country.

Simply put, you have a better chance of being killed while walking through many American cities than you do while wearing a military uniform in Iraq.

Shouldnt you be on the first plane to Iraq then

[sa1177]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

I'm not talking about total deaths--I'm talking about deaths to U.S. soldiers, which is the figure that the media talks about most, and the one that Americans care about most. If you want to talk total deaths in the U.S., (not just murders, but deaths from car accidents, domestic violence, drug overdose, etc.), the numbers would be FAR higher!

Read the article....601,00 of those deaths were supposedly cause by violence related to the War. The rest attributed to disease, accidents etc.

[dudleysghost]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

I will restate my original point, just for clarity. An American citizen walking through the inner cities of our country, puts his life at risk as much or more than an American soldier in Iraq. I believe the statistics bear that out.

Sorry to pile on TH (although he did ask for it)...

I would just like to point out that this thread is an excellent example of the difference between believing something and actually knowing it, and of how the former is no substitute for the latter.

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by barfo

That is simply false. Using your figures (except for this one: 130,000 US soldiers in Iraq), we
have:

768/130,000 = 0.0059 >> (194+352+344+198+72)/10,000,000 = 0.0001

According to those numbers, Iraq is 59 times more dangerous than the 5 cities you named.
You can't count the Iraqi population of 26 million if you aren't going to consider their deaths.

barfo

Spin it anyway you want, but the fact is there are more Americans getting killed every year in the 5 cities I mentioned than in Iraq every year.

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by HB

Shouldnt you be on the first plane to Iraq then

I think I'll just avoid the 5 cities I mentioned. Makes much more sense, especially for someone with no military training and past the age of enlistment.

It's not surprising that soldiers are dying in Iraq, where they're fighting a war. What's surprising is that our cities are so dangerous that you take your life in your hands just walking through them.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

Spin it anyway you want, but the fact is there are more Americans getting killed every year in the 5 cities I mentioned than in Iraq every year.

hey, whatever way you have to lie to yourself about the situation.

[hoojacks]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

Spin it anyway you want, but the fact is there are more Americans getting killed every year in the 5 cities I mentioned than in Iraq every year.

That's not spin, that's perspective.


Here's something to think about (all of you): in some major US cities there ARE wars going on. There are gang wars, which count for most of the gun deaths in the USA, of which there are an average of 500 per WEEK. The 101 soldiers killed in Iraq this month pales in comparison to the gang violence going down in some major US cities.

All this does is remind us that we've done a terrible job managing inner city violence here and abroad. Wonderous.

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by hoojacks

In some major US cities there ARE wars going on. There are gang wars, which count for most of the gun deaths in the USA, of which there are an average of 500 per WEEK. The 101 soldiers killed in Iraq this month pales in comparison to the gang violence going down in some major US cities.

Exactly right. And many of those gang members have snuck into the country from Mexico and central and south American countries. The M-13 gang (I think that's what they're called) are the biggest and baddest hispanic gang in the world, and they're crossing our southern border all the time. But let's not dwell on this. Our soldiers fighting in Iraq are a much better political target!!