[blazerboy30]

Originally Posted by Kiss_My_Darius

And probably more so he came across very well spoken and presidential . . . and I just loved the differnce between watching him and watching Bush . . . and believe it or not my vote may come down to that one reason. : )

Obviously you are free to vote for whoever you feel is most qualified. But I would urge you to remember that this year Bush is done, and it is a new election.

[blazerboy30]

Originally Posted by Dornado

Also, in the hypothetical in the first paragraph, you can't reverse the races of the candidates and not reverse the social context and racial history that comes along with their skin color... being white in America is different than being Black... people are a little more hostile towards white racism regarding blacks because there's a bit of a history there...

There is a bit of a history there, agreed. But I personally would like our country to get beyond the point where race is an issue. And, in my opinion, empathizing ANY racial separitism towards ANY group, is not going to help our country get to that point.

[e_blazer1]

Originally Posted by Kiss_My_Darius

Here is the fear that, embarassingly enough, I originally felt after hearing that comments by the pastor and that Obama attended that church for 20 years and had a close relationship with the pastor:

Would this be a president who felt that US government has been so oppressive to the minorities of the country that it was time to right the ship in his 4-8 year term? Would we start to see a US policy that was based entierly on improving the poverished areas of the US at the expense of big bad business? Basically would we head to a socialist type of government and give large amounts to certain cross-sections of the community to make everyone equal?

Maybe in the end, that is right thing to do. But whatever wrongs there may have been to certain demographics in our communtiy, I don't think can be made up for in one or two terms. And, again if your looking for an honest answer, I work very hard and am not terribly excited about a President who may feel we need to share the wealth of the "fortunate" with those who are "unfortunate."

I know that all sounds bad, but I think deep down inside a lot of voters feel like that.

But right now, Obama's has my vote because after hearing him speak I do not feel he has that extreme agenda (some of it but not to the extreme). And probably more so he came across very well spoken and presidential . . . and I just loved the differnce between watching him and watching Bush . . . and believe it or not my vote may come down to that one reason. : )

For me, the issue isn't the one that Dornado raised, that Obama is some closet racist out to get even with whites for centuries of opression of black people. And, although I have some of your concerns, KMC, regarding an anti-business bias in Obama's platform, that still isn't what concerns me. For me, it's a concern about genuineness and judgment. I fear that underneath it all, there's just a calculating politician at work who's saying the things he thinks will get him elected. You can say that all politicians are that way, and you'd be right, but with Obama, he's making a point of saying he's different. The Rezko thing concerns me. His background of coming from the big machine political quagmire that is Chicago politics concerns me. In this latest brouhaha, I wonder whether he is being fully truthful about being a uniter and one who can help the country transcend race when he has for 20 years attended a church like Trinity United Church of Christ, which espouses "Black Liberation Theology" as its core message and has had a pastor who presented that message in a very divisive and sometimes hateful manner. To me, he failed himself and his candidacy by not having taken steps to get the church to change its message or, failing that, choosing to leave it. Had he done so, he would have a great message to share with the country about living out the words he spoke in his speech. But he didn't do that and I'm left feeling that his speech may just be so many words in search of a person truly great enough to carry them out.

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by e_blazer1

In this latest brouhaha, I wonder whether he is being fully truthful about being a uniter and one who can help the country transcend race when he has for 20 years attended a church like Trinity United Church of Christ, which espouses "Black Liberation Theology" as its core message and has had a pastor who presented that message in a very divisive and sometimes hateful manner.

It appears that most Democrats agree with you. In the latest Gallup Poll, Clinton has moved into a 49 to 42 percent lead over Obama. As Rev. Wright said, it looks like the chickens are coming home to roost for Obama.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080320/...tics_gallup_dc

[It's_GO_Time]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

It appears that most Democrats agree with you. In the latest Gallup Poll, Clinton has moved into a 49 to 42 percent lead over Obama. As Rev. Wright said, it looks like the chickens are coming home to roost for Obama.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080320/...tics_gallup_dc

Well I can't say I'm surprised . . . a bit disappointed after his speech, but not surprised.

I think most voters will react more out of fear than hope . . . and the views of the pastor, and relationship with Obama, are scary enough to influnece voters to consider other options.

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by Kiss_My_Darius

Well I can't say I'm surprised . . . a bit disappointed after his speech, but not surprised.

I suspect that more people saw the videos of Rev. Wright raving like a lunatic than saw or read Obama's speech. Those videos speak volumes about Wright's church and the mindset of the people who attend it, and every thinking person knows it.

[HB]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

I suspect that more people saw the videos of Rev. Wright raving like a lunatic than saw or read Obama's speech. Those videos speak volumes about Wright's church and the mindset of the people who attend it, and every thinking person knows it.

That speech by Obama on youtube ALONE has been viewed 2 million times

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by HB

That speech by Obama on youtube ALONE has been viewed 2 million times

And how many times have all the videos of Rev. Wright been viewed? Any idea?

[HB]

Well on youtube right now, there are various videos of him, none of which have hit half a million. Most of them dont even have 100,000 views

[It's_GO_Time]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

I suspect that more people saw the videos of Rev. Wright raving like a lunatic than saw or read Obama's speech. Those videos speak volumes about Wright's church and the mindset of the people who attend it, and every thinking person knows it.

Sad if true . . . make all kinds of accusations about someone but not be willing to listen what they have to say about it.

Sad really . . . maybe talking to the public like they are in second grade really is the new and effective way to do politcs.

[Minstrel]

Originally Posted by e_blazer1

In this latest brouhaha, I wonder whether he is being fully truthful about being a uniter and one who can help the country transcend race when he has for 20 years attended a church like Trinity United Church of Christ, which espouses "Black Liberation Theology" as its core message and has had a pastor who presented that message in a very divisive and sometimes hateful manner. To me, he failed himself and his candidacy by not having taken steps to get the church to change its message or, failing that, choosing to leave it.

I find this concern of yours, the one that you've been talking about for most of the thread, to be at direct odds with your concern that he's a calculating, non-genuine politician. A "calculating politician" would never have gotten involved with a Christian church that had any message or goal beyond loving Jesus. It's too risky for his/her political career. You suspect he's known and heard Wright's controversial views for many years...and this squares, to you, with a politician primarily concerned with being electable? What's the political upside, in national politics, to being involved with a church who's pastor has negative views of white people and America? "White people and America," incidentally, are pretty important demographics to have on your side in a national, or even congressional, election.

I don't think your two concerns are compatible. Either you have to admit that Obama didn't know about all of this and was blindsided at a bad time, or that he did know about it, which means he doesn't live his life and choose his beliefs and company by what is politically expedient.

[Yega1979]

Originally Posted by Dornado

here is what I am saying: Majorities do not oppress themselves.

Also, in the hypothetical in the first paragraph, you can't reverse the races of the candidates and not reverse the social context and racial history that comes along with their skin color... being white in America is different than being Black... people are a little more hostile towards white racism regarding blacks because there's a bit of a history there...

This is so obtuse it's almost not even worth responding to. The social elite of all colors have been oppressing the poor of all colors for centuries. Have you ever read a history book?

And we can't erase the fact that the blacks were enslaved, but are we ever going to get to a point where we stop using that as an excuse for racism on their behalf? EVER?? The people alive today had nothing to do with slavery. So keeping racial anymosity toward somone, because they happen to be the same race as someone who enslaved your ancestors hundreds of years ago, is by definition and spirit, racist. It's aboslutly no different than me saying I hate *****s because a few of them stole my car.