[MARIS61]

Minimize what?

[Minstrel]

Originally Posted by e_blazer1

You guys can minimize it in your minds all you want, but in my opinion, this will be the end of his candidacy.

Wow. Despite specifically condemning the comments, you think he'll go from virtual lock to finished? I think that's minorly crazy.

But I guess we'll see.

[e_blazer1]

Originally Posted by Minstrel

Wow. Despite specifically condemning the comments, you think he'll go from virtual lock to finished? I think that's minorly crazy.

But I guess we'll see.

Oh, well I've been crazy for a long time. Obviously, anyone who's been a Blazer fan for as long as me has to have some issues, right?

Look, I'm just telling you what I think and that is that this is going to snowball on Obama. Here's the problem: Obama says he condemns the things that Reverend Wright said in these inflamatory videos and that he's never heard Wright speak from the pulpit in that manner in any of the sermons that he's attended. I don't see how that flies given that he's been a member of the church for nearly 20 years. It's not as though Wright suddenly went off his rocker; these tapes are over a period of several years. During this time period, when Obama is picking people for his team, none of this comes to his attention?

This is a quote from Trinity Evangelical's website:

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

Replace the word "Black" in that paragraph with "White" and tweak the rest of the language accordingly to fit and I think you'd agree that it would sound like something that the Aryan Nation or KKK might throw out there. There's more than enough stuff here to give the conservative talkshow people fodder for the rest of the campaign and I don't see any way that Obama can get by with the, gee I didn't know, defense. I think that there will be a lot of talk and there will be some counterpunching, but ultimately, I think that the Democratic Party and the superdeligates play it safe and put Hillary on the ticket.

[Minstrel]

Originally Posted by e_blazer1

Replace the word "Black" in that paragraph with "White" and tweak the rest of the language accordingly to fit and I think you'd agree that it would sound like something that the Aryan Nation or KKK might throw out there.

There's a bit of a difference between banding together around racial heritage when one is a member of an oppressed (to varying degrees over time) minority, and when one is the entrenched majority. The former smacks of self-preservation, the latter of nativism.

So, I don't think you can "replace 'black' with 'white'" without entirely changing its character.

It could snowball, but I don't think it will. Democrats are far less likely to demonize a candidate for being "anti-American." Not because Democrats have anti-American sympathies, but because they aren't as knee-jerk about "patriotism" as some elements of the Republican party are. I am sure this will be used as a rallying cry among conservatives against Obama, in a general election, but those are people who would never have voted for him anyway.

[Stepping Razor]

I don't think this *should* snowball against Obama, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if it *does* snowball against him. The right-wing media machine is a powerful force, and you better believe everybody from Drudge to Rush to Talkhard will never, ever stop talking about this. They are very talented at stirring up ****.

On the plus side, this should disabuse people of the notion that Obama is actually a Muslim...

Stepping Razor

[Dan]

Originally Posted by e_blazer1

You guys can minimize it in your minds all you want, but in my opinion, this will be the end of his candidacy.

It might hurt his chances at winning the GE, but once the Democratic party starts emphasizing the mistakes of the Bush administration (and how much McCain wants to keep those mistakes around) and not emphasize the piddly little differences between Hilary and Obama, people will see which candidate (be it Clinton or Obama vs McCain) is for trying to improve things and which one thinks everything is fine how it is (and wants more of the game).

Considering that it was barely a blip that McCain had someone endorse him (Hagee) who basically is against the Catholic Church (not to mention the last Pastor who endorsed him who basically hates Muslims...wait a second..Barack HUSSEIN Obama.....I see it!) and it didn't end his candidacy, I don't think this will change anyones vote. At least, change the vote of anyone who already wasn't going to vote for him (like my grandparents, who basically don't like him because they believe fox news is gospel, and Obama hates America and is Muslim...which everyone here knows is code for a 6 letter word, for a lot of people who are older than 70).

[mook]

for this to "snowball," it'd have to get extremely hyped by the right wing. they've already staked out their ground that Obama is a covert Muslim, never missing an opportunity to mention Hussein.

so now they have to say, "He's a covert muslim! And he's been attending a christian church for 20 years that hates America!"

that's a lot for even Limbaugh ditto heads to wrap their brains around.

here are their choices:
a. swift boat him into being a covert muslim Manchurian candidate.
b. swift boat him into belonging to a Black-Pantheresque christian church.

but it'd take an amazing amount of doublethink to swift boat him into both.

[e_blazer1]

As I was driving around to various places yesterday, I tuned into KXL to see what the talk guys were doing with this story. O'Reilly, Larson, and Savage were all over it, with Savage (as usual) being the most outlandish in his comments. I turned on Fox and listened to Hannity and Combes because I'd heard that Barack was going to do an interview there. Again...lead story. The conservatives are well on their way to making this into a huge deal.

[HB]

Well its not like Conservatives or Republicans were going to vote for him come general election time. They are doing this to prevent him from winning the nomination, now if he does win it they are in big trouble for using up their ammo so early.

[hoojacks]

This makes me question why I give a **** about politics.

[e_blazer1]

This article by a Barack supporter raises some of the issues that bug me about this story:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gerald...k_b_91693.html

[Dan]

Originally Posted by e_blazer1

As I was driving around to various places yesterday, I tuned into KXL to see what the talk guys were doing with this story. O'Reilly, Larson, and Savage were all over it, with Savage (as usual) being the most outlandish in his comments. I turned on Fox and listened to Hannity and Combes because I'd heard that Barack was going to do an interview there. Again...lead story. The conservatives are well on their way to making this into a huge deal.

I don't think Fox News (and conservative radio people) have the power they used to. Otherwise, McCain wouldn't have been the nominee. It took a while, but I think people are starting to think for themselves again.

And before anyone says that liberals do the same, name me a radio "liberal talking head" that more than 8 people know?

Honestly, the only radio personality that I know of (though Ive never heard her show) is Rachel Maddow, and thats because she's on MSNBC's coverage.

I think this will blow over, especially since I think as a country we're getting tired of the same old (from both sides) "well, someone who supports you did XYZ! So you are as guilty of it too!" retardation of the parties.

I mean, ****, instead of being upset about the fact that Bush still thinks the economy is strong, the war in Iraq was right (and the implication that any vet who says otherwise is just a "liberal") and that torture is okie dokie, let's get upset that a black guy (who ISN'T running for President) said some stupid things and doesn't have the same blind adoration of a small group of people in this country who refuse to look at history objectively.

It's like getting uber upset about McCains endorsements by those pastors...McCain is a bad candidate for President based on his own doings, not that of two crack-pot idiots.

Hm, I bet that's gonna rile up people.

[e_blazer1]

Hap, here's the difference for me in the Barack/Wright story and McCain having some pastors with questionable messages supporting him. Obama's been a member of the congregation for some 20 years. He included Wright on his team. He's been a close personal friend of the guy and, despite admitting that he heard of at least one of these stories a year ago, he's done nothing to distance himself from him in the intervening time period. Not until the stink hit the fan on ABC did he suddenly decide it was time to issue a public statement and dump Wright from his team. He's con