[HB]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

Give me a break. Obama was there plenty of times. He said so himself in his speech in Philadelphia, when he admitted to hearing "controversial" and problematic things while sitting in the pews. And even if he wasn't there for one or two comments, he surely knew what was going on and what was being said. There is no way on God's green earth that he could have been oblivious to the more outrageous statements that his pastor made. As a matter of fact, most of them are on the DVDs that the church sells!! They're proud of those statements! It's telling it like it is, don't you know, bro?

And once again I go back to the fact that no one has yet to bring up any statement or incident that shows that Obama has been influenced by those statements. I have agreed with you that it was poor judgement of him to not have distanced himself from such earlier. We are not voting for Wright, Obama is the candidate. And until someone brings evidence against him that shows he supports Wright's unpatriotic stance, he will get my support.

You were never going to vote for him in the first place, stop throwing a fit

[It's_GO_Time]

Originally Posted by e_blazer1

Well, I can see this thread is done with reasonable discussion. It was nice while it lasted.

No doubt . . . it was a good thread for awhile.

Too bad.

[e_blazer1]

Interesting response from Mike Huckabee:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...ee-defend.html

[barfo]

Originally Posted by e_blazer1

Well, I can see this thread is done with reasonable discussion. It was nice while it lasted.

Yes, agreed on both counts.

barfo

[barfo]

Originally Posted by e_blazer1

Interesting response from Mike Huckabee:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...ee-defend.html

Huckabee has just gone up in my estimation. He talks like a man who has a clue. Of course that's easier to do when you aren't running anymore.

barfo

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by Stepping Razor

What he said, WITH NO AMBIGUITY WHATSOEVER (for those of us who get our news from sources other than rightwingnutjobs.com, anyway) was that he objected to the notion that anyone who didn't wear a particular lapel pin wasn't a true patriot. In other words, the "it" in "what it stands for" is NOT THE FLAG, it's the conformity and jingoism of the lapel-pin mafia.

Classic! The old Clinton argument rears its ugly head. It all depends on what the meaning of "is" is, eh?

It really doesn't matter which way you read Obama's comment, what it comes down to is he refuses to wear the American flag on his lapal out of "conscience," but when it's politically expedient and he knows Americans are wondering about his patriotism, then he surrounds himself with all kinds of big American flags for his TV appearance.

The hypocrisy is self-evident.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by e_blazer1

Well, I can see this thread is done with reasonable discussion. It was nice while it lasted.

Amazing how we're able to have civil, logical and rationale discussions when someone doesn't take part in them, aint it?

fixed that for u -sa1177

[Dornado]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

Classic! The old Clinton argument rears its ugly head. It all depends on what the meaning of "is" is, eh?

So I was reading this guy turn his failure to understand grammar into an attack on Bill Clinton, and it got me wondering a few things:

1. Why do you guys debate this guy? Its like sports homerism... if someone thinks Robin Yount was better than Babe Ruth because they're a Brewers fan, you don't bother having a 10 page debate about it. There is nothing rational going on.

2. Do people think Barack Obama is a racist? I suspect not. And if not, can this issue just go away?

[crandc]

Originally Posted by e_blazer1

Well, I can see this thread is done with reasonable discussion. It was nice while it lasted.

Yep, even when we got mad at each other I always felt like I was talking to a rational person. Just one who was wrong.

I also found Huckabee's comment interesting, and apt.

BTW, Obama also made a major speech in Iraq yesterday and one on the economy today. Guy's going to get hoarse real soon!

I think what impressed me about the speech, I thought he was wrong on a couple of issues (breaking down all trouble in the Middle East as being due to just "Islamists", for example) but he talked to us as though we were intelligent people. It's been said you can't lose by banking on the stupidity of the American public. The notion that a president should be intelligent somehow has become "elitist". Campaigns are reduced to sound bites and bumper stickers, "news" is Paris Hilton's idiocies, "commentary" is a string of insults, screamed loudly. And we get what must be the most ridiculous critierion for choosing a president in history, who would you rather have a beer with? Obama bucked the trend. He assumed that people could and would respond to an appeal to reason (thank you Tom Paine). That we could actually, gasp, think!

P.S. Could someone ask Talkhard what he thinks of the fact that John McCain does not wear an American flag pin?

[Yega1979]

I suspect that most politicians just put on appearances of being religious because we have so many christians in this country. Talk about a woman or black man being elected? I'd like to see someone elected who says he doesn't believe Jesus ever existed.

Pastor Wright's comments about the "evil rich white people, oppressing all the brothas" was racist, and it re-enforces the fear that many whites americans have about electing a black president, but I don't think Obama necessarily agreed with it.

[Dornado]

Originally Posted by Yega1979

I suspect that most politicians just put on appearances of being religious because we have so many christians in this country. Talk about a woman or black man being elected? I'd like to see someone elected who says he doesn't believe Jesus ever existed.

Pastor Wright's comments about the "evil rich white people, oppressing all the brothas" was racist, and it re-enforces the fear that many whites americans have about electing a black president, but I don't think Obama necessarily agreed with it.

This I don't get at all... what is the fear? That Obama becomes president and oppresses all of the white people? Do people really think that is possible? One guy is going to become president and the entire government is going to chase down whitey? Good lord is that dumb.

[blazerboy30]

Originally Posted by Dornado

This I don't get at all... what is the fear? That Obama becomes president and oppresses all of the white people? Do people really think that is possible? One guy is going to become president and the entire government is going to chase down whitey? Good lord is that dumb.

Wow. You've got to be kidding.

Reverse the situation... if a white person running for president was stimulating peoples' doubts about his true feelings on separatism , you would have a much different tune. I guarantee you wouldn't say "it is only one guy as president, its OK if he wants to oppress black people".

I'm not saying Obama wants to oppress white people, but you are basically saying that even if he does, it is not a big deal because he is only one person, the president.