[maxiep]

Originally Posted by barfo

Interesting way to put it. Gore enlisted in the army after college. After that, he went to grad school twice - one divinity school, one law school. He dropped out of both, however.

barfo

That's right, I had forgotten his time in div school. I didn't know he had attended law school. Thanks for the info. I liked him in 1988 and supported his candidacy. His turn to economic populism bothered me in 2000, and now I don't really know what to think of him.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by maxiep

That's right, I had forgotten his time in div school. I didn't know he had attended law school. Thanks for the info. I liked him in 1988 and supported his candidacy. His turn to economic populism bothered me in 2000, and now I don't really know what to think of him.

He is funny in that new Futurama Movie.

[barfo]

Originally Posted by maxiep

There are a few reasons. First, because without security, it's tough to take care of economic issues. Our freedom is based on our security.

Fair enough, but aren't we pretty secure? Without food, it's tough to take care of x, y, or z, but since we have plenty of food, food isn't the number 1 issue.

Second, because I'm old enough to remember the Cold War. I view Islamic extremism as a different, but equally significant threat to the way I live my life.

I'm old enough to remember it too - but I don't see Islamic extremism as such a significant threat. What are they going to do to us? Blow up a couple of more buildings? Crash a few more planes? Poison some city's water supply? So what? It's a bummer for those that get killed, but it doesn't threaten our way of life, unless we choose to let it.

Third, because I've spent more of my life in Europe than I would care to admit. I've seen first-hand what knuckling under to political correctness does to a society's right to free speech. I've also seen what happens when you place zero importance on borders.

Not sure what political correctness, or borders, have to do with the threat from Islamic extremism?

barfo

[maxiep]

Originally Posted by barfo

Fair enough, but aren't we pretty secure? Without food, it's tough to take care of x, y, or z, but since we have plenty of food, food isn't the number 1 issue.



I'm old enough to remember it too - but I don't see Islamic extremism as such a significant threat. What are they going to do to us? Blow up a couple of more buildings? Crash a few more planes? Poison some city's water supply? So what? It's a bummer for those that get killed, but it doesn't threaten our way of life, unless we choose to let it.



Not sure what political correctness, or borders, have to do with the threat from Islamic extremism?

barfo

Barfo, I think we just hit on the reason for our primary difference of opinion. I think we're at war with the ideology of Islamic extremism, and it appears you view it like a case of herpes--it pops up from time to time, but it's controllable. I completely respect your point of view, I just possess a different one.

Personally, I give great credit to this administration for us not being attacked in the US since September 11th. According to Excel's date function, that's 2,386 days without an attack. And it's not like they haven't tried.

[maxiep]

Originally Posted by barfo

Not sure what political correctness, or borders, have to do with the threat from Islamic extremism?

barfo

I didn't mean to be obtuse, but realize I was in retrospect. Regarding political correctness, I mean that people in many Western European societies have been so cowed by not wanting to offend, that they don't have the backbone to stand up to the violations of their own laws. It leads to the bumfuzzled ideas expressed by the Archbishop of Canterbury about how Sharia law needs to have a place in the UK. The self-censorship that occurs on a daily basis on that continent is shocking. I'm fine with respecting other cultures, but there has to be a minimum level of values to which you have to ascribe to reside.

As for borders, borders are what make a nation a nation. Without them, we're just part of a continent. I'm not talking just about our borders with Canada and Mexico, I'm talking about what and who is granted entry via ship and air. Without border security, we don't have security at all.

[barfo]

Originally Posted by maxiep

Barfo, I think we just hit on the reason for our primary difference of opinion. I think we're at war with the ideology of Islamic extremism, and it appears you view it like a case of herpes--it pops up from time to time, but it's controllable. I completely respect your point of view, I just possess a different one.

Personally, I give great credit to this administration for us not being attacked in the US since September 11th. According to Excel's date function, that's 2,386 days without an attack. And it's not like they haven't tried.

Fair enough. It is true that I see it as akin to herpes - I think that metaphor fits, because I don't think there is a cure, but it isn't fatal, either. I don't understand how it could be otherwise (the latter part I mean). How can Islamic extremism ever defeat us? Do you picture them getting enough nukes to wipe out the whole continent like the USSR had? Do you think Americans will convert to their side?

I'm not sure I can give the administration that much credit. What have they done, exactly? Going into Afghanistan, sure. But that was sort of the obvious move. And going into Iraq pretty much canceled any credit that they get for Afghanistan. Strip-searching granny at the airport? Not very effective unless the enemy is unbelievably stupid. Color coded terror alerts?

We've been safe from the terrorists, in my opinion, because there aren't very many of them, they aren't well funded, and because, now that 9/11 has happened, we are watching for them instead of ignoring the warning signs, as this administration did prior to 9/11.

barfo

[e_blazer1]

Originally Posted by barfo

Fair enough. It is true that I see it as akin to herpes - I think that metaphor fits, because I don't think there is a cure, but it isn't fatal, either. I don't understand how it could be otherwise (the latter part I mean). How can Islamic extremism ever defeat us? Do you picture them getting enough nukes to wipe out the whole continent like the USSR had? Do you think Americans will convert to their side?

What do you think would happen if terrorists managed to set off even one nuclear device or one biological weapon in this country? You saw what happened after the attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon. Imagine public reaction in this country if we were suddenly faced with an attack of the magnitude of even a dirty bomb. It isn't a matter of whether the US would survive such an attack. It's whether the world could deal with the aftermath of such an event.

As for whether the Bush administration and Homeland Security get the credit, or what share of the credit they deserve, that's something we'll never know for sure. I think that the combination of financial attacks on terrorist funding, increased security, and the fact that they've been tied up on the defensive in Afghanistan and Iraq has certainly made it more difficult for them to carry out attacks on the US. I hope it stays that way because their ambition to carry out more attacks surely hasn't decreased.

[barfo]

Originally Posted by e_blazer1

What do you think would happen if terrorists managed to set off even one nuclear device or one biological weapon in this country? You saw what happened after the attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon. Imagine public reaction in this country if we were suddenly faced with an attack of the magnitude of even a dirty bomb. It isn't a matter of whether the US would survive such an attack. It's whether the world could deal with the aftermath of such an event.

Basically, the problem is that Americans are pussies? Yes, I saw what happened after 9/11. A lot of people running around like headless chickens, and our government encouraging that. If you can't take a hit, the terrorists have won.

So they killed 3000 people. We've got 300,000,000 more. We can crank them out faster than they can kill them, so what are we so worried about?

barfo

[e_blazer1]

"If you can't take a hit, the terrorists have won."

You know, that's a great slogan for the Democratic Party foreign policy platform. Why don't you e-mail it into the Obama and Clinton headquarters?

[barfo]

Originally Posted by e_blazer1

"If you can't take a hit, the terrorists have won."

You know, that's a great slogan for the Democratic Party foreign policy platform. Why don't you e-mail it into the Obama and Clinton headquarters?

Sorry, what's that got to do with the Democrats or their foreign policy?
I was talking about the american public, R's and D's and Independents alike.

barfo

[Sambonius]

Originally Posted by barfo

Sorry, what's that got to do with the Democrats or their foreign policy?
I was talking about the american public, R's and D's and Independents alike.

barfo

Slogans are neat. Have a great summer.

[barfo]

Originally Posted by Sambonius

Slogans are neat. Have a great summer.

I don't get it.

barfo

[Dan]