[barfo]

Originally Posted by e_blazer1

My bad. I thought you were kidding.

C'mon, I never kid.

I can pretty much guarantee you that the public sentiment in response to a WMD attack on a US city wouldn't be, "Okay, everybody, time to nookie up and crank out some replacements."

But it should be. That's what I was saying.

barfo

[Sambonius]

Try saying this at work tomorrow! "Don't joke me, just promote me" and see how much your income increases in a quick New York minute! Or if you're in a Blazers forum try saying, "I hate Kobe, now promote me" and see how quick you are selected as the board moderator. It's great!

[e_blazer1]

Originally Posted by barfo

C'mon, I never kid.



But it should be. That's what I was saying.

barfo

Hmmm. All we are saying, is give a piece a chance?

John Lennon might have liked that.

[barfo]

Originally Posted by Sambonius

Don't you know? Apparently you can win whole elections by just using slogans. It's an awesome new way to win important positions in the world. You should try it!

Ok, let's see.

Vote for barfo, he's really, uh...

Let me try again.

if barfo gets your vote, he'll mate with a goat!

barfo

[Sambonius]

Originally Posted by barfo

Ok, let's see.

Vote for barfo, he's really, uh...

Let me try again.

if barfo gets your vote, he'll mate with a goat!

barfo

I like it! Now all you need is some stockboard and a magic marker and you're on your way to success. I plan on doing this when I go to medical school.

[Minstrel]

Originally Posted by e_blazer1

My bad. I thought you were kidding.

I can pretty much guarantee you that the public sentiment in response to a WMD attack on a US city wouldn't be, "Okay, everybody, time to nookie up and crank out some replacements."

I think the point is (and barfo can and will correct me if I'm wrong) that "our way of life" is certainly not something the terrorists have the power to change. All they can do is kill some number of people, an insignificant amount in terms of destroying the nation. The only people who can change "our way of life" is us, by panicking and rashly limiting our own freedoms (by giving government carte blanch to do it).

[e_blazer1]

Originally Posted by Minstrel

I think the point is (and barfo can and will correct me if I'm wrong) that "our way of life" is certainly not something the terrorists have the power to change. All they can do is kill some number of people, an insignificant amount in terms of destroying the nation. The only people who can change "our way of life" is us, by panicking and rashly limiting our own freedoms (by giving government carte blanch to do it).

I think that's a bit naive. Can terrorists gain an old fashioned military victory over the US? No. Can they change our way of life? Absolutely; they already have in at least small ways(increased security measures at airports and other areas, decreased travel and economic disruptions after the attack on the WTC, etc.) As a one time event, it obviously didn't make too much longterm difference, but if attacks were happening on a regular basis, perhaps to where you were afraid about going to a shopping mall or getting on a bus (as people are in many parts of the world), it would have more dramatic impacts on our ability to just go about our regular lives.

Obviously, the devil is in the details. We may not agree on how much of our freedom we're willing to exchange for improved security, but most people don't really object to improved screening and security checks at airports or at our borders. Phone surveillance and the many civil liberties challenged by the Patriot Act are an area where governmental abuse is an ever-present danger. I don't think anybody has a real good handle on exactly where the line should be drawn between reasonable security measures to reduce the likelihood of terrorist attacks and excessive governmental interference in our personal privacy. I don't think that barfo's "blow up as many of us as you want, we can make more" plan is a real viable one either. Finding a reasonable balance point is going to be a challenge for the next administration.

[Talkhard]

Here's another good article on Rev. Wright by Thomas Sowell, whom the playright David Mamet has called our greatest living philosopher. By the way, Sowell is black.

Among the many desperate gambits by defenders of Senator Obama and Jeremiah Wright is to say that Wright's words have a "resonance" in the black community.

There was a time when the Ku Klux Klan's words had a resonance among whites, not only in the South but in other states. Some people joined the KKK in order to advance their political careers. Did that make it OK? Is it all just a matter of whose ox is gored?

While many whites may be annoyed by Jeremiah Wright's words, a year from now most of them will probably have forgotten about him. But many blacks who absorb his toxic message can still be paying for it, big-time, for decades to come.

Why should young blacks be expected to work to meet educational standards, or even behavioral standards, if they believe the message that all their problems are caused by whites, that the deck is stacked against them? That is ultimately a message of hopelessness, however much audacity it may have.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...3/post_25.html

[Minstrel]

Originally Posted by e_blazer1

I think that's a bit naive. Can terrorists gain an old fashioned military victory over the US? No.

I didn't mention military victories. That's too obviously impossible to even be worth talking about.

Can they change our way of life? Absolutely; they already have in at least small ways(increased security measures at airports and other areas, decreased travel and economic disruptions after the attack on the WTC, etc.)

That's not really "changing our way of life." When people talk about "our way of life" they generally mean the things that characterize America. Liberties and culture and that sort of thing. It's like saying an earthquake "changes our way of life." Yes, bad things happen from time to time, and we have to adjust for a short time, but it makes zero fundamental difference.

Unless we overreact and start curbing civil liberties and creating a less free society for ourselves. If we assist the terrorists by changing our own ideals, then our way of life can fundamentally change.

As a one time event, it obviously didn't make too much longterm difference, but if attacks were happening on a regular basis

They don't have the ability to do it on a regular basis. It's like saying, "IF the terrorists were to muster an army, sail or fly them over here and conquer us, you can bet our lives would change." Yes, true, but they can't, so it won't.

If they had the ability to do it "on a regular basis" it would have happened more than once a decade prior to 9/11 (it's not like our post-9/11 actions have cut down waves of Islamic terrorism that were going on before that).

Finding a reasonable balance point is going to be a challenge for the next administration.

How about the balance point that worked fine for us in the decades before 9/11? Just because the terrorists finally managed one big, spectacular success hardly means that we are now suddenly an insecure society and we need to ramp up security before the storm hits.

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by Minstrel

Just because the terrorists finally managed one big, spectacular success hardly means that we are now suddenly an insecure society and we need to ramp up security before the storm hits.

It sure as hell does. Why do you think they were able to pull off 9/11? It was because we weren't serious enough about our national defense. We've taken steps to correct that since 9/11, and today we are much better prepared for a terrorist strike. Does that mean we'll prevent every terrorist attempt on us? Probably not. But we are definitely better prepared, and we have definitely "ramped up" security. We would have been stupid not to.

[Minstrel]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

It sure as hell does. Why do you think they were able to pull off 9/11?

Because when people spend decades trying to hurt you, no matter how prepared you are, they will succeed eventually.

It was because we weren't serious enough about our national defense. We've taken steps to correct that since 9/11, and today we are much better prepared for a terrorist strike.

We might be. Whether that makes much marginal difference when we're talking about strikes that succeed due to absorbing failures until one breaks through is a legitimate question. And whether that difference was worth giving up civil liberties to the government is an even better question.

As a conservative who presumably believes in small government and presumably dislikes additional power in the federal government, I am a bit surprised that you're so sanguine about all the trespasses on the rights of US citizens since 9/11.

[Talkhard]

Rev. Wright is the gift that keeps on giving. Seems he has a racial epithet for everyone, and is a non-discriminatory hater. This time he was discovered referring to the "garlic noses" of Italians.

Priceless. This is the spiritual mentor of the guy who is supposed to "unite" us all and heal our racial divisions. Uh, huh.

http://weblogs.newsday.com/news/loca...ob_hold_t.html