[Dan]

I don't get why it is that certain people in the political spectrum, seem to throw out the "hate America" tag, at people who disagree with their beliefs.

It seems to be an almost knee jerk thing, and something for people to hear to make themselves feel better about things. Rush says it because he knows people will go "yah! I agree", knowing most of them won't know why they "hate America" or question it. They just believe it and spread the word.

It's horribly offensive to imply that people "hate America" because they don't agree with the conservative right's viewpoint on things. It doesn't really mean anything, as it seems to show one's own personal ignorance or arrogance.

I hope that's a phrase that dies along with some of the other over used and stupid phrases that as a country we use.

[Stepping Razor]

Obviously you hate America

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Stepping Razor

Obviously you hate America

Well, duh. I'm liberal. It was in part of the agreement I signed. That and being part of the gay agenda, and putting it out there to take over the school systems.

[maxiep]

Idiocy isn't limited to one side of the political spectrum. I've heard plenty of people on Air America accuse people on the right of being Anti-American.

[Hector]

If you don't like it, move to Burma.

Everyone hates us because they're jealous.
--Laker fans

[Dan]

Originally Posted by maxiep

Idiocy isn't limited to one side of the political spectrum. I've heard plenty of people on Air America accuse people on the right of being Anti-American.

I agree, neither side owns the patent on idiocy...however, as I've asked before, can anyone name a liberal talk show host who anyone gives a crap about? Hell, I don't even know what station in Portland, if there is one, airs "Air America". The only host I can name from the station is Rachael Maddow, and thats because she's on MSNBC every so often, and she's not just some lefty wack-job mouth piece. She's an actual Presidential Historian, and has a doctorate..whereas someone like Rush is a college drop-out.

Lars has just bee in broadcasting his whole "adult" life, and didn't exactly light up the school books. Bill O has a B.A. in history and was an honors student, and then a masters in public administration. Savage has iirc, several masters or doctorates, but he's a gimmick. He knows it sells (much like Tom Leykis), which is why I don't think anyone cares about him.

Like I said, I don't know what station has Air America, or any other "liberal" hosts, but I know which stations air Lars Larson, Michael Savage, Bill O'reilly and Rush Limbaugh.

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by Hap

I don't get why it is that certain people in the political spectrum, seem to throw out the "hate America" tag, at people who disagree with their beliefs.

Here's an even better question. Why do certain people like the Rev. Wright call America the "US of KKKA" and then insist that they really love their country?? That's like me calling my mother a "skank" and a "whore," but then insisting that I really love her.

As Obama says, "words matter." They tell you what someone feels in their heart. And Rev. Wright's words, and Obama's membership in a church led by an America-hating pastor, speak volumes.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

Here's an even better question. Why do certain people like the Rev. Wright call America the "US of KKKA" and then insist that they really love their country?? That's like me calling my mother a "skank" and a "whore," but then insisting that I really love her.

Well, there is a weird sorta thing about that. See, let's say that your sister is an alcoholic, and a bit of a "black sheep" of your family. While you may not agree with all the things she says, or does, but you still love her.

I think the idea behind the KKK reference is that for a long time, there was systematic (or do I mean systemic? I never remember right) racism in our country. From the Government on down.

You can't deny that there have been certain aspects of our history that have been vile and disturbing. The Jim Crow laws, the segregation, slavery, lack of civil (a funny way of saying "equal") rights and an institutionalized form of racism (maybe thats what I meant instead of systematic).

But the GOVERNMENT is different from the people. I don't particularly care for the government and all the idiotic things they've done in the history of the country. Yes, there is no doubt the country has done many great things, but a lot of that isn't necessarily because of the government, but because of people.

I can understand hating the government, but loving the country. They're two separate things. I believe when Wright was speaking of that, he was talking about the government, not the people.

I'm not terribly fond of Idaho's government, but I love the state of Idaho.

As Obama says, "words matter." They tell you what someone feels in their heart. And Rev. Wright's words, and Obama's membership in a church led by an America-hating pastor, speak volumes.

To some it does. To others, who are able to look at things from a historical standpoint and therefore understand WHY people say things (and not just the black and white "wrong/right" viewpoint you seem to use), it doesn't speak volumes. It might speak a paragraph or two.

[Talkhard]

Hap, you've done about as good a job of "explaining" the Rev. Wright's comments as I've seen, and yet it ultimately doesn't matter. You can parse and spin his comments all day long, and give me every explanation of what you think he means and where he's coming from, but the words that he spoke are so offensive to most Americans that he and Obama will never live them down, in my opinion.

This stuff is terribly important on an emotional level. Despite the flaws in our system, and the injustices that have been done to blacks and other minorities, most Americans believe in their country and love it unreservedly. And they want a president who feels the same way. It's clear to me and to millions of other Americans that Obama, his wife, and their pastor have some serious issues with race that have tainted their views about this country. That alone will prevent Obama from ever becoming president.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

Hap, you've done about as good a job of "explaining" the Rev. Wright's comments as I've seen, and yet it ultimately doesn't matter. You can parse and spin his comments all day long, and give me every explanation of what you think he means and where he's coming from, but the words that he spoke are so offensive to most Americans that he and Obama will never live them down, in my opinion.

that is probably true. We are a nation of short attention spans, and sound bites, and this was a dousey..doosey...whopper of one.

This stuff is terribly important on an emotional level. Despite the flaws in our system, and the injustices that have been done to blacks and other minorities, most Americans believe in their country and love it unreservedly. And they want a president who feels the same way.

I believe in our country, but in doing so, I'm not ignoring that there are things that we need to discuss openly, otherwise we'll have blow ups like this where a lot of people don't understand why it is the way it is.

It's clear to me and to millions of other Americans that Obama, his wife, and their pastor have some serious issues with race that have tainted their views about this country. That alone will prevent Obama from ever becoming president.

I don't know if it will, it might. There is a factor of fear, ignorance and hate that permeates our country. Fear of change, ignorance of our past and difference, and hatred of those who are different.

The press likes to take things out of context because it sells. People in the US don't want to find stuff out on their own, so they just repeat what they hear in the press, and it rises to the top.

[Dornado]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

Here's an even better question. Why do certain people like the Rev. Wright call America the "US of KKKA" and then insist that they really love their country?? That's like me calling my mother a "skank" and a "whore," but then insisting that I really love her.

As Obama says, "words matter." They tell you what someone feels in their heart. And Rev. Wright's words, and Obama's membership in a church led by an America-hating pastor, speak volumes.

I couldn't even list some of the names I've called by brother... but I love the guy to death.

On the bolded part: You really think that was a better question? You don't see how someone could say something critical of something they love? I don't understand how that concept eludes anyone, seems kind of simplistic. I'd love a response.

[Sug]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

It's clear to me and to millions of other Americans that Obama, his wife, and their pastor have some serious issues with race that have tainted their views about this country. That alone will prevent Obama from ever becoming president.

You mean like being black?

I mean seriously, THEY have issues with race? THEY do? Blacks did not even have equal protection under the law until the 1960's, but it is THEM. We had Twilight Laws on the books in Oregon into the 1970's, that meant Blacks could not be out after dusk in some parts of Oregon, into the late 70's. Why do these people have all these "issues"?

I guess in your mind Martin Luther King's issue was that he was not bulletproof? King said things equally as "Un-American" as the Rev. Wright. Speaking truth to power will always sound bad to those that benefit the most. Every Republican candidate, including McCain has to get the stamp of approval from the religious right as well. They say the same things, discuss the gay plauge, and explain the 9-11 occured because the US is full of sinners. Essentially the same argument, they state we brought on 9-11 because of our actions be it foreign policy or moral failure.

Why couldn't that blacks be more like the native Un-Americans, at least they allowed themselves to be forever seperate under the law. Women in 1919 scored a major victory of their un-american movement, they got the right to vote. Those *****es said things like America was unfair, and even after being physically beaten they had the un-american idea that they should fight and speak out about what they felt was right.

Then there were these really un-american folks, they felt like when they had no say in how their lands were being run they said NO-WAY. They decided to fight the Northern half of these states that were United. See they wanted to own Black people because free labor rules and all. Well look what happend those Black people they wanted to keep enslaved grew up and now one is running for president. But he has an issue because see he thinks there is something wrong with the United States, irony eh.

If you go way back, even before you could be "un-american" because it just was not able to occur, there were a bunch of people that felt things were unfair. They got so made they wrote this document that said certain things should be rights for everyone, well except blacks, and women. They were so angry at the powers that be they decided to fight a revolution. I mean they not only had hate speech, they kicked the crap out of the people they did not agree with. Now becuase of what they did, it led to that whole civil war thing down the road(discussed above), and next thing you know you have some guy in a Church saying bad things about the United States in the year 2008.

If some of you would just realize how friggin SOFT we have become. The United States were born on disagreement and hate for what is wrong. We do not have a perfect Union to this day, but we should continue to disagree and hate the United States until that union is perfect. If those that came before us did not hate the way things were in this country, we would not have this land of freedom.

So to those that hate Rev Wright I applaud you, but what exactly are you wanting to change through that hate?

Things I hate about the United States:
Public bail outs for billionaires, racism, poverty, lack of funding for special education.

Hate is an American tradition, and let's hope it stays that way. Without hate we would have never declared that we should be our own nation.