[hoojacks]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080401...ucationsociety


in other news

[maxiep]

Based on your two links, is it your supposition that more money spent on education would increase the graduation rate?

[barfo]

Originally Posted by maxiep

Based on your two links, is it your supposition that more money spent on education would increase the graduation rate?

Without doubt that is true. If you paid kids to go to school, graduation rates would go up.

barfo

[bball2223]

I'm waiting to see talkhard's spin on this. He is the one who said that education has improved in this country since Bush jr. has been president correct?

[maxiep]

Originally Posted by bball2223

I'm waiting to see talkhard's spin on this. He is the one who said that education has improved in this country since Bush jr. has been president correct?

Do you believe this is a political issue? I don't. I believe it's a tragedy shared by everyone. If you want a surefire way out of poverty, get an education. It's as close to a silver bullet to solve society's ills as there is.

[hoojacks]

Originally Posted by maxiep

Based on your two links, is it your supposition that more money spent on education would increase the graduation rate?

Yes. Are you implying otherwise?

[R-Star]

I love how people act like its not a problem of funding. Fund your schooling better so they have enough money to say, have 2 teachers per 40 kids rather than 1, and maybe buy a couple post 2000 text books.

****, its sad to watch some people. "It has nothing to do with funding or politics." Dig your heads a little further in the sand.

[maxiep]

Originally Posted by hoojacks

Yes. Are you implying otherwise?

I am. Look at the money spent on the average inner city student vs. the money spent on the average private school. The latter group does more with less.

Here are the primary problems with education (in no particular order):

1. Teacher unions

2. Faculty tenure

3. A 19th century school calendar

4. A lack of emphasis on the basics (English, Social Studies, Math and Science)


Just throwing money at a problem is one of the worst things you can do unless you have a concrete plan to change the problems.

[maxiep]

Originally Posted by R-Star

I love how people act like its not a problem of funding. Fund your schooling better so they have enough money to say, have 2 teachers per 40 kids rather than 1, and maybe buy a couple post 2000 text books.

****, its sad to watch some people. "It has nothing to do with funding or politics." Dig your heads a little further in the sand.

Thank you for your opinion. I'll give you a concrete example. The District of Columbia spends approximately 30% more than the national average per student and over 50% more than the Archbishop Carroll HS, one of the best secondary schools in the District.

I'm all for money going to serve the students. What I'm not a fan of is bloated bureaucracies, burned out teachers marking time and unions holding schools hostage, putting their demands before the interest of the students.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by maxiep

Thank you for your opinion. I'll give you a concrete example. The District of Columbia spends approximately 30% more than the national average per student and over 50% more than the Archbishop Carroll HS, one of the best secondary schools in the District.

I'm all for money going to serve the students. What I'm not a fan of is bloated bureaucracies, burned out teachers marking time and unions holding schools hostage, putting their demands before the interest of the students.

Wow. I dont even know what to say to someone who is going to point his finger at the teachers themselves as the main reason to Americas education woes.
I'd like you to paint my house, heres a toothbrush, go ahead and get started. Its about the equivalent of being a teacher in America. While Im not saying throwing money at the problem is the solution, more money, or at the very least, much better spending of the money is needed. I understand that what schools are getting now is being mishandled by some, but to use that and point the problems with the education system on teachers? I've yet to meet a teacher who decided to get into the profession to live the fast, wealthy lifestyle that is a modern day teacher in America.

It seems America seems to love to talk about the eduction crysis every now and again, making a big fuss and pointing fingers, then once again moving on with no resolution once the President makes another stupid mistake, news comes from the Iraq front, or Britney Spears accidently drives home with her kids baby seat on the roof.

Ill be the first to agree with anyone saying "You're Canadian R-Star, what do you know about the American educational system?". Not much. I know enough to know that the current system needs to be scapped though, and a new foundation must be laid. Could that be done without more funding? Possibly. I dont know how much is being spent in the first place.

All I know is guys like me saying "More money! More MONEY!" and guys like you saying "The teachers are to blame! They get enough, they need to use it better!" is getting everyone nowhere. Something obviously needs to be done, I dont care if its more money, less money, the teachers fault or not, I just want to see something happen. You have to wonder how many great minds have been slipping through the cracks over the years. Its depressing to say the least.

[bball2223]

Originally Posted by maxiep

Do you believe this is a political issue? I don't. I believe it's a tragedy shared by everyone. If you want a surefire way out of poverty, get an education. It's as close to a silver bullet to solve society's ills as there is.

No Child Left Behind has had a negative effect on education in America. If I'm not mistaken that was a political issue not too long ago. Teachers in America are teaching to meet the requirements of standardized tests. If it's an important subject, or area to cover but it's not on a standardized test it is often neglected. The quality of education in America has dropped over time. Is it a 100% political problem? No but to believe that politics (government specifically) has played no role in the downfall of education in our country is equally false.

[maxiep]

Originally Posted by R-Star

Wow. I dont even know what to say to someone who is going to point his finger at the teachers themselves as the main reason to Americas education woes.
I'd like you to paint my house, heres a toothbrush, go ahead and get started. Its about the equivalent of being a teacher in America. While Im not saying throwing money at the problem is the solution, more money, or at the very least, much better spending of the money is needed. I understand that what schools are getting now is being mishandled by some, but to use that and point the problems with the education system on teachers? I've yet to meet a teacher who decided to get into the profession to live the fast, wealthy lifestyle that is a modern day teacher in America.

It seems America seems to love to talk about the eduction crysis every now and again, making a big fuss and pointing fingers, then once again moving on with no resolution once the President makes another stupid mistake, news comes from the Iraq front, or Britney Spears accidently drives home with her kids baby seat on the roof.

Ill be the first to agree with anyone saying "You're Canadian R-Star, what do you know about the American educational system?". Not much. I know enough to know that the current system needs to be scapped though, and a new foundation must be laid. Could that be done without more funding? Possibly. I dont know how much is being spent in the first place.

All I know is guys like me saying "More money! More MONEY!" and guys like you saying "The teachers are to blame! They get enough, they need to use it better!" is getting everyone nowhere. Something obviously needs to be done, I dont care if its more money, less money, the teachers fault or not, I just want to see something happen. You have to wonder how many great minds have been slipping through the cracks over the years. Its depressing to say the least.

Yep, by "burned out teachers marking time" I must mean ALL teachers. You nailed it. Brilliant. For the record, I'm for more pay for teachers. I'm against teacher unions, the seniority system and tenure for elementary, middle and secondary school.

[hoojacks]

Originally Posted by maxiep

I am. Look at the money spent on the average inner city student vs. the money spent on the average private school. The latter group does more with less.

Are you serious? The average inner city student is crammed with 60+ of his classmates in one classroom where underpaid teachers attempt to get them under control to teach them out of outdated textbooks. Private schools are for the wealthy. If everyone was wealthy, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Here are the primary problems with education (in no particular order):

1. Teacher unions

2. Faculty tenure

Things like union and tenure are kept around because schools are so drastically underfunded and teachers would prefer to make more than someone at McDonalds. The teachers are burnt out because they have to teach 50 students because schools are being shut down and the rest are severely overcrowded.

3. A 19th century school calendar

Sure, why not.

4. A lack of emphasis on the basics (English, Social Studies, Math and Science)

I can agree with this. My public school experience (still fresh in my mind) was basically a giant prep to teach me how to take a test that I never took. The whole standardized testing bull**** (perpetuated by No Child Left Behind) was the main thing that the schools were focusing on for most of the time I was in public school.

Just throwing money at a problem is one of the worst things you can do unless you have a concrete plan to change the problems.

I never implied to just throw money at it. Of course there's a plan, it involves a different president's policies that aren't No Child Left Behind.

Originally Posted by