[dudleysghost]

Originally Posted by Schilly

The number of Vaccines kids get these days is ridiculous though. I understand stopping the spread of terrible diseases like Small Pox and things like that, but now they get Chicken Pox vaccines, they recommend yearly Flu vaccines, it's excessive.

The flu kills around 3,000 kids under 10 per year, which is more than car accidents. It also kills upwards of 35,000 other people, and it's well known that vaccinating individuals can help prevent the spread through the population, by herd immunity effects, and that the flu (a real flu, not the cough and cold we normally get and call "flu") is unpleasant enough that it is generally worth vaccinating just to avoid having it, even if we aren't going to die.

As for what number of vaccines is "excessive", what standard do you use to measure that? Each vaccine is tested for efficacy and serves to prevent both you and the community from getting a significant communicable disease. Why shouldn't we do that?

[dudleysghost]

Originally Posted by Schilly

Just want to chime in here. my 7 year old son has aspergers syndrome. I have heard of the mercury poisoning thing from the mercury which was in fact used only as a preservative for the vaccines. Initially we were in the same boat... Wow we only noticed the outward symptoms after his vaccines when he was 2 etc..etc... The problem is that it is natural human nature to try and place blame for something that affects them and has no explanation. People want to blame soemthing. Heck recently I heard a theory that watching Cable TV was the result. Sattelites OK, Boradcast...OK Cable TV specifically, umm yeah sure.

Jenny may have no scientific basis or proof which is fine, regardless of that she has become an advocate for research and trying to find help. More power to here for using her celebrity status for a real cause that is affecting real people.

Originally Posted by Jenny McCarthy

We believe what helped Evan recover was starting a gluten-free, casein-free diet, vitamin supplementation, detox of metals, and anti-fungals for yeast overgrowth that plagued his intestines.

She's used her celebrity status to raise awareness of cures that absolutely do not work, waste a lot of people's money and are often actually harmful to the child. She's endorsed snake oil salesmen and discouraged people from putting time and effort into finding out the real mechanism behind autism and encouraged them to continue pursuing disproven hypotheses. She also discourages people from getting vaccines, which have been proven to protect their health and often save their lives.

I don't think she deserves any credit for this.

[MARIS61]

All man-made solutions and miracles present a new set of problems and consequences.

Funny how our species just doesn't seem to flow with nature the way the others do.

[Schilly]

DG while there is no cure for autism there are in truths to dietary affects on kids with autism. Many parents of autistic children do so positive changes in their autistic children as a result of limiting milk and the GLuten free casein free diet. But it doesn't work for all kids. For some reason digestive problems including an abundance of yeast in the digestive track are more common in autistic people than non-autistic people. As many autistic people suffer from over-stimulation feeling discomfort in their digestion may be distracting enough to affect behavior. Treating these digestive problems can help.

But truthfully none of those things are cures, they are simply band aids that treat symptoms.

[Schilly]

Originally Posted by dudleysghost

The flu kills around 3,000 kids under 10 per year, which is more than car accidents. It also kills upwards of 35,000 other people, and it's well known that vaccinating individuals can help prevent the spread through the population, by herd immunity effects, and that the flu (a real flu, not the cough and cold we normally get and call "flu") is unpleasant enough that it is generally worth vaccinating just to avoid having it, even if we aren't going to die.

As for what number of vaccines is "excessive", what standard do you use to measure that? Each vaccine is tested for efficacy and serves to prevent both you and the community from getting a significant communicable disease. Why shouldn't we do that?

Try to understand for a moment that I have a child with Aspergers, and am constantly bombarded by the hope that it's as simple as blaming vaccinations and that if that's the case then we can look forward to a reduction in the frequency of Autism. When it's something that affects a person directly logic isn't the only thing there is, but it's a daily battle to strive for,

On the Mercury thing the Government did in fact think that there might be a connection or they wouldn't have changed the regulations regarding vaccines. Has it been proven to be the cause? Not by any means. Was it a supsect? Absolutely.

[dudleysghost]

Originally Posted by Schilly

DG while there is no cure for autism there are in truths to dietary affects on kids with autism. Many parents of autistic children do so positive changes in their autistic children as a result of limiting milk and the GLuten free casein free diet. But it doesn't work for all kids. For some reason digestive problems including an abundance of yeast in the digestive track are more common in autistic people than non-autistic people. As many autistic people suffer from over-stimulation feeling discomfort in their digestion may be distracting enough to affect behavior. Treating these digestive problems can help.

But truthfully none of those things are cures, they are simply band aids that treat symptoms.

I can't say I know what the dietary effects of protein limited diets is, or if there is any real data to back up the observations of "many parents". "Many parents" think vaccines caused the autism to begin with, because they can't seem to see the difference between correlation and causality, and those many parents are dead wrong. I do know for certain though that chelation therapies are ineffective, expensive and often quite dangerous, and that Jenny deserves no more praise for promoting it than the people do who say that antiretroviral therapy is what causes aids, or that you can cure cancer with dietary and lifestyle changes. At the very least, they cause people to waste time, money and hope, and at worst, people in their desperation are injured or killed by these erroneous treatments.

[dudleysghost]

Originally Posted by Schilly

Try to understand for a moment that I have a child with Aspergers, and am constantly bombarded by the hope that it's as simple as blaming vaccinations and that if that's the case then we can look forward to a reduction in the frequency of Autism. When it's something that affects a person directly logic isn't the only thing there is, but it's a daily battle to strive for,

On the Mercury thing the Government did in fact think that there might be a connection or they wouldn't have changed the regulations regarding vaccines. Has it been proven to be the cause? Not by any means. Was it a supsect? Absolutely.

It's an understandably difficult situation, but like you said, logic is something that you should still strive for. A lot of us have experienced difficult medical situations, and a lot of people turn to false answers in desperation, but in a tough situation it's all the more important not to. You must have trouble with your child's autism, and I'm honestly sympathetic to that, but what would you tell a parent whose child dies from the flu or some other preventable disease because they were afraid to get them vaccinated?

As for whether the medical establishment thought there might be a connection between mercury and vaccines in autism, it was a hypothesis at one time. It wasn't that many researchers actually believed it, but at one time it hadn't been ruled out, and there were a couple fairly poorly designed studies that suggested it might be. Then they collected more evidence that contradicted it. After that, they changed the formulations, not because it was considered likely that thimerosal caused autism, but primarily because they were worried about people being afraid of getting vaccines, and it was relatively inexpensive to change it. They were responding to people's irrational fears, and have since collected even more evidence that basically proves that there is no link. So I'm not sure what your point is by saying mercury in vaccines was one time a suspect, because now it certainly isn't, and the more people believe that it might be, the more likely to forgo vaccines that could prevent real people from experiences real harm. Ignorance has a cost.

[Schilly]

Originally Posted by dudleysghost

I can't say I know what the dietary effects of protein limited diets is, or if there is any real data to back up the observations of "many parents". "Many parents" think vaccines caused the autism to begin with, because they can't seem to see the difference between correlation and causality, and those many parents are dead wrong. I do know for certain though that chelation therapies are ineffective, expensive and often quite dangerous, and that Jenny deserves no more praise for promoting it than the people do who say that antiretroviral therapy is what causes aids, or that you can cure cancer with dietary and lifestyle changes. At the very least, they cause people to waste time, money and hope, and at worst, people in their desperation are injured or killed by these erroneous treatments.

I fully agree with you on this. Because of my family's situation we ourselves are in contact with several families of autistic children. My wife and I are very lucky our son is extremely high functioning and his apsergers will not affect him as he gets older, in the sense that it won't prevent him from having a "normal" life. But we are in communication frequently with a couple of other families in our neighborhood whose children are not so lucky. Love and Desperation often times make people do drastic things. And you are right she is providing false hope.

On the vaccination thing It is my opinion that they are excessive. You don't know by lecturing me on the benefits that maybe I have a spiritual disagreement with the concept of them. I don't in this case but many many people do. According to one Government health site in 2006-2007 68 children died in the US from influenza. It is my belief that excessive vaccination and excessive antibiotic treatment actually weakens our bodies ability to fight off disease by minimizing the effort needed by our immune system. Do I have hardline statistics to back it up? No, but many doctors do agree with the idea.

[Schilly]

Originally Posted by dudleysghost

It's an understandably difficult situation, but like you said, logic is something that you should still strive for. A lot of us have experienced difficult medical situations, and a lot of people turn to false answers in desperation, but in a tough situation it's all the more important not to. You must have trouble with your child's autism, and I'm honestly sympathetic to that, but what would you tell a parent whose child dies from the flu or some other preventable disease because they were afraid to get them vaccinated?

As for whether the medical establishment thought there might be a connection between mercury and vaccines in autism, it was a hypothesis at one time. It wasn't that many researchers actually believed it, but at one time it hadn't been ruled out, and there were a couple fairly poorly designed studies that suggested it might be. Then they collected more evidence that contradicted it. After that, they changed the formulations, not because it was considered likely that thimerosal caused autism, but primarily because they were worried about people being afraid of getting vaccines, and it was relatively inexpensive to change it. They were responding to people's irrational fears, and have since collected even more evidence that basically proves that there is no link. So I'm not sure what your point is by saying mercury in vaccines was one time a suspect, because now it certainly isn't, and the more people believe that it might be, the more likely to forgo vaccines that could prevent real people from experiences real harm. Ignorance has a cost.

I agree with all this. My point was that it was a concern and because it was a concern many people ran with it that it was at least a contributor. I read almost every article that comes up in connection so I am familiar with what you said above. If nothing else not putting mercury in our kids is a good thing, though realistically the amount they would have received would have truthfully be inconsequential.

[Schilly]

More flu stats in the 2003-2004 flu season 83 people under the age of 18 died in the US. of those 35 of them had underlying chronic medical conditions. In 2006-2007 flu season 68 died.

[dudleysghost]

Originally Posted by Schilly

I agree with all this. My point was that it was a concern and because it was a concern many people ran with it that it was at least a contributor. I read almost every article that comes up in connection so I am familiar with what you said above. If nothing else not putting mercury in our kids is a good thing, though realistically the amount they would have received would have truthfully be inconsequential.

Yeah sorry Schill, I'm not trying to be insensitive, but I get fired up about bad medical advice. I can understand why people are skeptical about medical advice or the prevailing recommendations of scientists, which frequently seem to change, or why people reach for answers that make sense to them. It bothers me though when people take that skepticism about the medical establishment and turn it into a justification to deliberately ignore empirical evidence (*glares over at Yega*) and embrace whatever crackpot theory that comes along that feels right. I can't even remember how many message boards I've seen with posts that go something like "well I don't know about the evidence but I'm a mother of a child with autism and I just feel that vaccines were a cause". It makes me want to strangle some sense into people... but I'll try to chill out

[Schilly]

LIke I said before, for some reason people feel the need to assess blame. It hurts to find out your child is autistic. It's scary wondering if you'll have to care for your child till the day you die, and then wondering who will take care of them. Hurt and Fear are prime contributors to anger, and then people have to find something to direct their anger at. Really the best thing to do though is to embrace the situation love your child for who they are, and rather than trying to make them understand you work your butt off to understand them.

My family is lucky. Yes my son has some what we call quirks that make things a bit stressful at times, but really he's a fun kid. He is very well liked by his classmates at school, he doesn't need much assistance at school and has no learning issues in fact as a 1st grader he gets straight a's and is reading at a 5th grade level and capable of math at a 4th grade level. our biggest concerns is keeping him interested in school.