[It's_GO_Time]

Originally Posted by crandc

Absolutely correct. I would add just one thing: mercury preservative in vaccines was phased out some years ago. So if mercury were the culprit, one would expect to find a drop off in autism as the newest generation of children receive mercury-free vaccines. In fact that has not happened. In and of itself that would disprove any claims of a link.

Do anti-vaccine parents really want to return to the days when 3 of 4 children died of measles and polio? Or were crippled, blinded? There are not epidemics in the US because a big majority are vaccinated, but in other countries epidemics of childhood diseases still happen. Is that what you want?

Autism is a very complex ailment. A lot of parents hope that there is a "normal child" within and grasp at straws, understandable, but hardly scientific evidence. Autism is also frequently mis-diagnosed.

Larry King has been seriously criticised for his absolutely uncritical attitude. He gives substantial air time to everyone from phony psychics (they are all phony) to quack remedies and never ever raises any objection or points out any facts that contradict what they say. I am sure Ms. McCarthy cares very much for her child but an actress who made her name by playing morons with boobs and no brains is just not the best source of medical information.

Oh crandc, you had me nodding my head in agreement all the way to the last line.

Jenny has puored her heart and soul learning about autism. She has put her career aside and emersed herself into trying to understand everything about autism. She has gone to numerous doctors, reads about the topic for countless hours and travels nationally to discuss the topic.

She may not be the best source of information, but I don't think the type of television persona she has protryaed during her carrer has any relevance on her opinion.

No big deal . . . it's just when I read that last statemet it seems to cheapen all the work Jenny has done on this topic . . . and she has done a lot.

[crandc]

KMD, my bad and I apologize, on screen persona is not the same as real person (look at all the morons Goldie Hawn portrayed in her early years).

I stil say she is wrong to promote quack remedies but should have based it on what she says and not what she did in the past.

Mea culpa

[Yega1979]

A lot of falshoods are being repeated in this thread as though they were fact.

#1. Autism rates have not dropped
FALSE!
An article in the March 10, 2006 issue of the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons shows that since mercury was removed from childhood vaccines, the alarming increase in reported rates of autism and other neurological disorders (NDs) in children not only stopped, but actually dropped sharply - by as much as 35%.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/38784.php


#2. Mercury has been removed from vaccinnes

Only partially true. Thermisol is still being given to many children in vaccines.

The rates of autism started to rise dramatically after mercury was put into the vaccines, and thousands of parents notice their children going into lala land right after getting vaccinated. Yep, no evidence that it has a harmful affect.

You've got to be downright stupid to believe that. Mercury is a very toxic poison, many children have a gene that allows it to get into the brain and destroy neurons. How can you NOT believe that injecting babies with mercury could cause problems.

[Coatesvillain]

I've always wondered are the numbers of Autistics rising, or have the classifications changed to include more cases that weren't originally classified as Autism? I'd want to blame other things too (having an older brother, and a nephew who are Austistic) but I don't know if that's truly the case.

[Schilly]

A lot of the problem here is that there is a huge movement called "Defeat Autism Now" that all parents of autistic children feel pressured to contact. They have their own "D.A.N." Approved doctors that you can take your children to. We have been encouraged by other parents to take our son to see one of their doctors, but frankly we don't feel comfortable with the organization. I am sure Jenny McCarthy has become involved with DAN or one of their associated organizations.

A big problem is there is no answer but many theories.

[Schilly]

Originally Posted by Coatesvillain

I've always wondered are the numbers of Autistics rising, or have the classifications changed to include more cases that weren't originally classified as Autism? I'd want to blame other things too (having an older brother, and a nephew who are Austistic) but I don't know if that's truly the case.

That's something I've wondered about as well. When they say Autism rates they are including a whole spectrum of "named" syndromes Aspergers being one. What 's interesting in the case of Aspergers in particular is that the Autism rate started to Spike in 1993.... Aspergers wasn't officially recognized in the US until 1994. I can't find information but how much of the increase of Autism rates are as a result of adding the aspergers diagnosis and others. Most people with Aspergers would have not been readily noticed as being a little different. They would have been considered shy, maybe a little socially awkward, eccentric etc...etc..

[dudleysghost]

Originally Posted by Yega1979

A lot of falshoods are being repeated in this thread as though they were fact.

#1. Autism rates have not dropped
FALSE!
An article in the March 10, 2006 issue of the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons shows that since mercury was removed from childhood vaccines, the alarming increase in reported rates of autism and other neurological disorders (NDs) in children not only stopped, but actually dropped sharply - by as much as 35%.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/38784.php


#2. Mercury has been removed from vaccinnes

Only partially true. Thermisol is still being given to many children in vaccines.

The rates of autism started to rise dramatically after mercury was put into the vaccines, and thousands of parents notice their children going into lala land right after getting vaccinated. Yep, no evidence that it has a harmful affect.

You've got to be downright stupid to believe that. Mercury is a very toxic poison, many children have a gene that allows it to get into the brain and destroy neurons. How can you NOT believe that injecting babies with mercury could cause problems.

The guy who buys into every conspiracy theory in the book is telling everyone else they are stupid. That's a good one. Tell us again how the CIA controls all the media on earth and the 9/11 attack was a plot by our government to get at the Mounds of Gold in the World Trade Center.

Yega likes to try to poke holes in established scientific research findings, claiming they are all under the control of the vaccine industry, even when they come from an independent government medical body like the Institute of Medicine, because there is supposedly a conflict of interest which means we should disregard all that evidence.

Yet, he would have us believe a study by Mark and David Geier, the latter having only a bachelor's degree in biology, and the former being a real research physician, who makes his living getting paid to provide "expert" witness testimony on behalf of people suing vaccine makers (when his testimony isn't getting thrown out for being outside of his expertise, speculative or otherwise obviously wrong) and by selling parents on a "treatment" process that involves giving kids chelation therapy and treatment with a drug Lupron (which is otherwise used for chemical castration) in a regimen that has absolutely no independent evidence of efficacy. Those guys are the snake oil salesmen to which I was referring.

But yes, they did look at the reported autism cases in one California database and found a year to year drop from 800 to 680. Like any quack, they picked up this one small piece of data and made broadly speculative and unfounded conclusions based on it. Like any good conspiracy theorist, Yega reads this and willingly disregards all other evidence like the enormous Institute of Medicine study and assigns all credibility only to the tiny study that agrees with what he wants to hear. Does he even consider it possible that this small dip in a small sample size is the result of random variation or some other factor rather than the one he'd like to believe, especially since it goes against a mountain of other evidence refuting the link between thimerosal and autism? Nah, that would be too logical.

If there is anyone out there who has a child with autism who is honestly interested in this debate, I think it's very important for you to examine the evidence, if you really want to know about all this. But I caution you to do so with the logical left-half of your brain, and when you see people making statements and assertions, consider their credibility carefully...

[Jayps15]

Originally Posted by Schilly

A lot of the problem here is that there is a huge movement called "Defeat Autism Now" that all parents of autistic children feel pressured to contact. They have their own "D.A.N." Approved doctors that you can take your children to. We have been encouraged by other parents to take our son to see one of their doctors, but frankly we don't feel comfortable with the organization. I am sure Jenny McCarthy has become involved with DAN or one of their associated organizations.

A big problem is there is no answer but many theories.

I can't say for certain but I believe Mrs. McCarthy is also affiliated with Autism Speaks, one of the largest organizations focused on autism. Autism Speaks is a pretty shady operation though, promoting the belief a large majority of those on the autistic spectrum are of the 'low functioning' kind, and focusing most of their considerable power on 'wiping out' autism, instead of promoting a more positive view of acceptance and understanding. They focus so much of their money and power on trying to eradicate an 'epidemic' when they should be researching and funding ways to increase the quality of life of the autistics they claim to be advocating for.

On of the board members for Autism Speaks went so far as to say that she seriously contemplated killing her autistic daughter and herself, but that thoughts of her 'normal' daughter kept her from doing it. People take the news that their children have been diagnosed on the spectrum as a death sentence, when nothing could be farther from the truth. There are drawbacks and severe symptoms that need to be managed, but there just as many positive sides to the spectrum as well. And if more people were understanding and accepting of something different there would be even fewer drawbacks.

To my knowledge there's only one person on the Interagency Autism Coordinating Committee that's been diagnosed on the spectrum. The IACC is a body of the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) that determines where to give grants for Autism research. In other words, this is the part of the government that chooses what gets studied about Autism. At a recent meeting an autistic speaker said:
'Additional representatives who are on the autism spectrum should be placed on the IACC and in workgroups and other areas of research. Nothing about us, without us. We are experts on our own autistic thoughts, ideas, experiences, and needs. No one else has that insight. '
But still nothings been done to incorporate the people with this condition into the management of the research.

[Jayps15]

Schilly I don't know if you've seen this, but http://www.wrongplanet.net/ is a great community full of people with ASD and specifically AS. If you take good care of your son and stay positive than he'll almost definitely turn out fine, it's not the autistic people that tend to make things difficult, it's the ignorant or unaccepting people that make life with this condition a more difficult.

[Schilly]

Originally Posted by Jayps15

Schilly I don't know if you've seen this, but http://www.wrongplanet.net/ is a great community full of people with ASD and specifically AS. If you take good care of your son and stay positive than he'll almost definitely turn out fine, it's not the autistic people that tend to make things difficult, it's the ignorant or unaccepting people that make life with this condition a more difficult.

I have visited that site before. I haven't signed up for it but I have signed up for a couple similar sites. The best thing about it was in communicating with adults with AS, how reassuring it was to see how "normal" most people with AS really are.

[Jayps15]

As dudleysghost put it Yega, that article that you linked to was written by a highly questionable source based on a grand total of 1 piece of data taken from one states medical records. It's pure speculation, by a party that is not very well respected. Mark Geier has a major stake in the 'proving' of a link between the vaccines and autism, he makes a hefty sum of money off that very theory. And recently his views have been considered so far outside the scientific consensus as to render his 'expert' testimony in court cases below the Daubert legal standard. In a 2006 case in which Geier participated as a witness a judge's decision included criticism such as Geier being a "professional witness in areas for which he has no training, expertise, and experience," whose testimony was "nothing more than an egregious example of blatant, result-oriented testimony," and "intellectually dishonest."

[Jayps15]

Originally Posted by Schilly

I have visited that site before. I haven't signed up for it but I have signed up for a couple similar sites. The best thing about it was in communicating with adults with AS, how reassuring it was to see how "normal" most people with AS really are.

Yea, in my particular case I was so 'normal' that I wasn't diagnosed until I was 21. I've got my quirks but I have a totally normal life, have an apartment with great roommates and I'm completely independent.

One of biggest things to deal with living with Asperger's is people's misconceptions about it and thinking it's so far from normal that it must inherently be wrong. The 1st week after me and my friends moved into a big apartment together one of them said 'that's so retarded' about something he had seen, then immediately apologized to me like I would be offended. I had to explain to him and all the rest that not only am I not retarded, but that the diagnosis of Asperger's specifically states that a patient must not be below the IQ required for mental retardation. That in fact with a tested IQ of 180+, that I'm probably one of if not the most intelligent people/person they've ever met.