[dudleysghost]

Originally Posted by Yega1979

Duds, we both believe in "conspiracy theories", you just believe in one that defies reason.

No, I just believe in ones that have mountains of evidence, you believe in ones with Mounds of Gold that are only supported by the unfounded assertions of wingnut websites. You tell everyone to wake up, but your probably the most ill-informed person on here, deliberately it seems. Look at that pile of dung you posted in post #44, does any of it come from a credible source? None at all, eh? Then why do you choose to believe them? These are the questions you should be asking yourself.

[Schilly]

Yega, one thing that is interesting and something I personally have thought about a lo, is that the Vaccines timing being connected could be coincidence. THe timing of the vaccinations coincides with when AUtism begins to become apparent in children, even before the mercury was being used.

[crandc]

Dudley's Ghost, Jayps and Schilly all made excellent points but in this case I am afraid they are falling on deaf virtual ears. The Internet has enabled conspiracy buffs and other anti-rationalists by allowing sound bites (which are then repeated word for word) to circulate easily, but it hardly invented them.

I've run into this type of person many times before. What it boils down to is they will accept any notion, no matter how unproven, disproven, internally inconsistent of just plain wacky, so long as it meets the single criterion of being rejected by mainstream science, medicine, or history. While they sometimes pretend to be scientific, for example saying "thousands of studies" support a vaccine-autism link, they can produce none and in fact have read no peer reviewed studies. If it is rejected by the mainstream it is right, no questions asked. So global warming is a myth, evolution is a myth, the Nazi Holocaust never happened and HIV does not cause AIDS. And while anti-rationalists (yega included) have put forward at least a dozen mutually exclusive "explanations" for how and why the World Trade Center collapsed, one thing they are absolutely sure of is that it was not because airplanes crashed into the towers. While they put forward a hundred mutually exclusive "explanations" of how and why John Kennedy was shot, on thing they are abolutely sure if is that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't do it. (Robert Kennedy is a bit tougher since many of the key players are still alive.)

Some have cited the lack of credentials of those whom conspiracy buffs reference, but that is precisely the point. They do believe that actresses, talk show hosts, wrestlers, science fiction writers, and above all "a kid with a laptop" know more than experts who spend years researching a topic and publish results in peer reviewed journals. In their minds they are American heros, rugged individualists, cowboys taking on the entrenched "scientific establishment" or "medical establishment". And if you want to see what anti-rationalism in power looks like, look no further than the current occupant of the White House. NASA, the Environmental Protection Agency, Center for Disease Control, National Institute of Health, National Parks Service, National Cancer Institute, among others, have all had research altered or censored prior to posting on their agencies' Web sites. And it did not mater a lick that that National Intelligence Estimate said Iraq had no illegal weapons and no ties to 9/11. Cowboy was going to take on that intelligence establishment and show he knew better.

Except he didn't.

Here are the words of a real scientist and environmental activist/expert. The current issue of Discover interviewed Dr. Philip Landrigan, a Harvard trained pediatrician who is one of the world's leading expert in the impact of environmental toxins, particularly on children, whose research on health effects lead, pesticides and other pollutants led to environmental regulations such as phasing out lead in gasoline (of course, Cowboy George knows better and refuses to enforce):

Q: What do we know so far about autism and the environment?
A: There have been three or four very high-quality studies that have tried to link thimerosal exposure in vaccines to autism, and none of them found anything. I know people have said it could be a vulnerable subgroup of children that's buried in the larger group. Maybe. Who's to say it's not there. All I can say is that right now ther's no evidence that thimerosal causes autism. On the other hand, there are lots of reasons to think that something in the envirnoment must be causing autism. The disease runs in families to some extent, so you know there's a genetic component. But then you'll have kids with no family background, so cleary envirnomental things trigger the disease. We just haven't been smart enough yet to recognize them.

Yega, since you think you are smart enough, answer one simple question. What is autism? Do you even know?

[Jayps15]

Originally Posted by crandc

Yega, since you think you are smart enough, answer one simple question. What is autism? Do you even know?

I like a lot of your post, but this is the internet and finding the answer to a question like this is something a 5 year old could be trained to do... Now if he got it wrong then that would be saying something!

[crandc]

Originally Posted by Jayps15

I like a lot of your post, but this is the internet and finding the answer to a question like this is something a 5 year old could be trained to do... Now if he got it wrong then that would be saying something!

Ah, but I want to see if he knows without looking it up and copy/pasting from Wikipedia.

[Schilly]

Originally Posted by crandc

What is autism? Do you even know?

I'm going to take a stab at this one.

What is Autism? Nobody really knows for sure what autism is other than it is something that is diagnosed based on symptoms in behavior. Autism has varying degrees of affect on those who are autistic the primary factor that determines affect in general is the level of intelligence of the individual. Intelligence levels are no higher or lower than a sampling of the sames number of individuals as thats who don't have autism.


There ya go. People know what the symptoms are, but they don't know what autism is, if they did there would be a generally accepted game plan to address it.

[meru]

Here's the best explanation I've heard for the urban legend about the connection between innoculations and autism:

For a large number of kids who end up "on the spectrum" (the current lingo - which shows that the concept of autism is shifting, and it's not an "on=Rain Man/off='normal'" thing any more) you don't see any of the signs until around 18 months to 2 years. And guess what - that's about the time most kids have innoculations. Is there a connection? No. So why do the signs appear then? Because the brain develops in stages, and it's the stage of development that starts around that age that has the 'problem' with it. Other major developmental stages happen in the teenage years, and then things can either get 'better' or 'worse' for autistic kids.

For what it's worth: I had a student who reported that her sister had an autistic kid and blamed it on innoculations. So she didn't have her second kid innoculated. That second kid is also autistic.

[meru]

While we're on the topic: my second son was diagnosed at around 2 (by my Dad while we were visiting - fun holiday THAT was) and we were thrown into a funk for a long time. Although he is a great kid (now coming up 5, still has great language and speech issues, but (contrary to many of the stereotypes) very loving and fun) he is clearly not "normal" and other people can have problems with that. A book that helped me a great deal was Send in the Idiots by Kamran Nazeer, a guy who was diagnosed young and went to an experimental school in NY in the seventies. The book is about him checking up on some of his schoolmates many years on. It's a wonderful read, and he's a very engaging writer.

[lalooska]

My son, who is almost 9, is on the autism spectrum as well. He's unique, smart, awesome, and a real puzzle. Like most parents, I would like to minimize the behaviors that occur that stops others from seeing how wonderful he is. My son was intense from the day he arrived. No question about immunizations here.

That's about where my research ends on this matter. Trying to figure out why someone is different without being prepared to accept the possibility that there may be no reason, is a flawed approach.

While I certainly appreciate the interest a celebrity can generate about autism in general, I hope everyone takes the time to truly enjoy everyone's differences, as you may just be missing out on some really cool stuff!

[Schilly]

Hey to other parents of Autistic/Apsies in here I 'd like to recommend a book my sister jsut picked up for us called "Born on a Blue Day" It's written by a rather well known Aspie from England, he is also a savant. IT's pretty neat reading it because he has somehow along the line found how to explain what his thought processes are like.

With my son, we have always wanted to have a just a glimpse of the though process' going through his mind. HE's a happy kid and his mind you can tell is going about 4 billion miles an hour in lord knows how many directions. He's pretty eccentric, other kids his age probably think he's odd, He'll probably be considerd an ultra nerd or something. Doesn't really matter to me, and it doesn't bother him in the least and he can tell he's different. Other kids are just something he tolerates.

[lalooska]

Thanks everyone for the feedback on books, websites, etc. I'll be hunting down those titles shortly. There is always comfort in knowing people who have similar challenges and victories.

A guy from the New Yorker wrote a remarkable article on his own life, and it really hit home for me: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...20fa_fact_page

The other thing that I've found useful is a book for friends and family that is a quick and easy read and helps form the framework of understanding and expectations.

[Schilly]

Originally Posted by lalooska

Thanks everyone for the feedback on books, websites, etc. I'll be hunting down those titles shortly. There is always comfort in knowing people who have similar challenges and victories.

A guy from the New Yorker wrote a remarkable article on his own life, and it really hit home for me: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...20fa_fact_page

The other thing that I've found useful is a book for friends and family that is a quick and easy read and helps form the framework of understanding and expectations.

Heehe that guys report reminds me so much of my son and the things he finds important. He always has to memorize what chapter each scene is in a movie on DVD. THen he tries to quiz me about what chapter each event occurs in. He also memorizes CD's which song is which track number. Every once in a while we'll hear a song on the radio that we maybe haven't listened to the CD in a year or so, and I'll check him..."WHat track number is this one?" He always remembers. And in a funny way my son like to show it off. HE likes for me to test him, and he likes to show people what he can do with is memory. He recently went through a phase where he would where 2 watches, one for PST and one for EST, because that's where Connecticut is, I still have no idea why Connecticut. HE has 3 clocks in his room. One is PST, one ios EST and one is PST military time.

For some reason Time and Maps enthrall him. He's memorizing the globe now. He has North AMerica memorized, All of europe, probably 70% of Africa and Asia... and 80% or so of South America.

[lalooska]

That's pretty neat. It sometimes amazes me what things my little guy finds comfort in.

From knowing everything about each one of the presidents, to knowing each country's location and identifying their flag, the level of critical thinking is much different than my other kids.

One Saturday night a couple of years ago, he let us know he didn't want to go to church the next day. When asked why he let us know that he didn't believe in that "legend". He has come around since then and says a prayer for Bill Gates (who created his favorite program, publisher) most nights.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, guys. Like Jayps mentioned prior, acceptance should be a key component of these types of discussions, so that's the angle I'm taking here.

[crandc]

Schilly, considering how bad most Americans are at geography, sounds like your boy is ahead of the pack.

And I don't believe in the legends either.