[HB]

Just watch Mccain on the stump, thats more than cause for concern. He looks like he will tether over any second.

And this whole Barack Obama experience thing is blown out of proportion, yes he is a young senator, but he has more legislative experience than Hillary. Secondly, Mccain and HRC supposedly have more experience and have been in Washington for so long, what are their notable achievements? Heck what have they done for their states

[maxiep]

Originally Posted by HB

Just watch Mccain on the stump, thats more than cause for concern. He looks like he will tether over any second.

Are you Fernando Lamas? I have this image of Billy Crystal in my mind, "You look mahvelous! It is better to look good than to feel good..."

Originally Posted by HB

And this whole Barack Obama experience thing is blown out of proportion, yes he is a young senator, but he has more legislative experience than Hillary. Secondly, Mccain and HRC supposedly have more experience and have been in Washington for so long, what are their notable achievements? Heck what have they done for their states

I'll pooh-pooh Sen. Clinton's experience for fun, but she was an active participant in a pretty successful two term presidency.

Sen. McCain is certainly an insider, but has also been an iconoclast. So much so that he was considered by Sen. Kerry as his running mate.

As for accomplishments, both Sen. Clinton and Sen. McCain have reached across the aisle to get things done. Yet Sen. Obama is the uniter. Hmm...

[HB]

Originally Posted by maxiep

Are you Fernando Lamas? I have this image of Billy Crystal in my mind, "You look mahvelous! It is better to look good than to feel good..."



I'll pooh-pooh Sen. Clinton's experience for fun, but she was an active participant in a pretty successful two term presidency.

Sen. McCain is certainly an insider, but has also been an iconoclast. So much so that he was considered by Sen. Kerry as his running mate.

As for accomplishments, both Sen. Clinton and Sen. McCain have reached across the aisle to get things done. Yet Sen. Obama is the uniter. Hmm...

Oh come on now, you mean that's all you have got. Fact of the matter is that, Clinton and Mccain are just as inexperienced as Obama when it comes to executive issues. Its probably why Mitt and Bill Richarson kept bringing that up during both parties respective debates.

Isnt it a shame that for how long both Mccain and HRC have been in the camp, we cant easily name any of their accomplishments? Come on now, the reach across the party lines is the most over used statement in politics. Look for comparison, as compared to guys like Biden, Liebermann, Ted Kennedy etc, dont you think Mccain and HRC's so called experience is laughable, yet those guys have also been in the Senate for ages.

[maxiep]

Originally Posted by HB

Oh come on now, you mean that's all you have got. Fact of the matter is that, Clinton and Mccain are just as inexperienced as Obama when it comes to executive issues. Its probably why Mitt and Bill Richarson kept bringing that up during both parties respective debates.

Hey, don't make me defend them. I think the Senate is a terrible place from which to elect a president. I'm a big fan of recruiting our presidents from governors. That being said, Sens. Clinton and McCain have a good deal more experience building and managing coalitions than does Sen. Obama.

Originally Posted by HB

Isnt it a shame that for how long both Mccain and HRC have been in the camp, we cant easily name any of their accomplishments?

I just didn't feel like doing so. Ever hear of McCain/Feingold? McCain/Kennedy? Isn't our goal as a country to be brought together? Change? Hope? Unity? What about Hillarycare? Even if you don't agree with it (and I don't), at least her name is on something.

Originally Posted by HB

Come on now, the reach across the party lines is the most over used statement in politics. Look for comparison, as compared to guys like Biden, Liebermann, Ted Kennedy etc, dont you think Mccain and HRC's so called experience is laughable, yet those guys have also been in the Senate for ages.

Senators Biden, Leiberman and Kennedy have all run for President. Biden started running in 1988 and hasn't stopped. Sen. Kennedy took his campaign all the way to the convention in August, even though he was 700 delegates down. The point is they were less experienced when they initially ran then now.

[Talkhard]

The people on the video are an easy mark. They don't seem to be highly educated, and they're not the most articulate speakers in the world. Yet I find it interesting that so many want to dismiss them out of hand for their comments, which are not really so different from those we've already heard by many more sophisticated types in this election process. Go ahead and laugh at their country bumpkin manners, but these people have pretty good instincts about Barack Obama . . .

[It's_GO_Time]

Originally Posted by maxiep

Don't thank me. Thank a government that has yet to outlaw that kind of hate thought. Enjoy it while you can; pretty soon all kinds of decriminatory thought will be outlawed.



Clearly you haven't worked with or been around many exceptional elderly people. I had the honor of studying under Gary Becker and Robert Fogel. If those two have lost some heat off of their fastballs, I'd have hated to see them when they were younger. Those two kicked my arse when they were in their late 60s and mid 70s.

My MD at Goldman Sachs was 78 years old. He worked hours that would crush a man half his age. He was also sharp as a scalpel.



I'm not trying to spin the age issue at all. It's there, and Sen. Obama hasn't been beneath using it. The people will decide if age discrimination is acceptable or not.

Running for office isn't easy. Barack Obama--a fit and healthy man in his 40s--has talked about how tired he is. Has John McCain complained or shown signs of being worn out? I figure if you have the energy to run for office, you have the energy to hold it.

Boy maxiep, you and I rarely see eye to eye. Not a bad thing except we always seem to go at it.

So you say you aren't trying to spin the age thing but refuse to accept that age can have an impact on your physical and mental capabilities. I don't think there is a doctor in the world that would agree with that.

If the argument is McCain is is smarter and harder working at 70+ than Obama is at 40+, I would get that. But to make the argument that because you know a few incredibly sharp and hard working people in their 70s, shows that age has no effect on your mental capabilities . . . I just don't get that.

Also, I would hope McCain is smart enough not to talk about how taxing campaigning is when he ran away with the campaign and age is already an issue with him. And if all it takes to convince you a candidate has the energy for office is because they can campaign for office . . . well tehm are some pretty low standards in my opinion.

Anyways, I think it is pretty clear you are for McCain and I have just recently joined the Obama bandwagon (with a very slight opening to allow McCain to try and convince me otherwise). . . so it should be pretty interesting banter for us as the election appraoches.

And for the record . . . I have worked and still work with "many exceptional elderly people" and although they still can kick my butt today . . . I'm glad I didn't have to deal with them 20 years ago . . . that would have been brutal.

[HB]

Originally Posted by maxiep

Hey, don't make me defend them. I think the Senate is a terrible place from which to elect a president. I'm a big fan of recruiting our presidents from governors. That being said, Sens. Clinton and McCain have a good deal more experience building and managing coalitions than does Sen. Obama.

What coalitions would that be? Isnt this coming back to what I have been harping on? We cant bring up any significant achievement of theirs can we?

Besides what experience did Bush have before taking over the country?

I just didn't feel like doing so. Ever hear of McCain/Feingold? McCain/Kennedy? Isn't our goal as a country to be brought together? Change? Hope? Unity? What about Hillarycare? Even if you don't agree with it (and I don't), at least her name is on something.

I dont recall Hillarycare ever being successful

Senators Biden, Leiberman and Kennedy have all run for President. Biden started running in 1988 and hasn't stopped. Sen. Kennedy took his campaign all the way to the convention in August, even though he was 700 delegates down. The point is they were less experienced when they initially ran then now

And I am saying experience is overrated, especially if theres not much to show for it. Besides if you scroll through history, I am sure you will find presidents that havent had that much experience

[hoojacks]

I propose finding a way to get Reagan back into office.

[maxiep]

Originally Posted by It's_GO_Time

Boy maxiep, you and I rarely see eye to eye. Not a bad thing except we always seem to go at it.

There's nothing wrong with a little respectful give and take.

Originally Posted by It's_GO_Time

So you say you aren't trying to spin the age thing but refuse to accept that age can have an impact on your physical and mental capabilities. I don't think there is a doctor in the world that would agree with that.

If the argument is McCain is is smarter and harder working at 70+ than Obama is at 40+, I would get that. But to make the argument that because you know a few incredibly sharp and hard working people in their 70s, shows that age has no effect on your mental capabilities . . . I just don't get that.

I think age is a real issue, but I also think there are those that aren't as affected by it as others. I never said age wasn't an issue, I just said that voting against Sen. McCain based on age is discrimination, just like voting against Sen. Clinton because she's a woman or Sen. Obama because he's black.

Most everyone would acknowledge that Sen. McCain has more energy than the average person his age. I'm a guy that doesn't like generalities. I look to specifics. Sen. Kennedy is another senator advanced in years, but with a tremendous amount of energy. There are also people in their 70s that are bumps on a log.

Originally Posted by It's_GO_Time

Also, I would hope McCain is smart enough not to talk about how taxing campaigning is when he ran away with the campaign and age is already an issue with him. And if all it takes to convince you a candidate has the energy for office is because they can campaign for office . . . well tehm are some pretty low standards in my opinion.

I would hope so as well. I look to a little more than having the energy to go through a campaign, but don't underestimate how hard campaigning for national office is.

Originally Posted by It's_GO_Time

Anyways, I think it is pretty clear you are for McCain and I have just recently joined the Obama bandwagon (with a very slight opening to allow McCain to try and convince me otherwise). . . so it should be pretty interesting banter for us as the election appraoches.

You'll find this hard to believe, but I haven't yet decided who I'm going to vote for, or even if I'm going to vote at all.

Originally Posted by It's_GO_Time

And for the record . . . I have worked and still work with "many exceptional elderly people" and although they still can kick my butt today . . . I'm glad I didn't have to deal with them 20 years ago . . . that would have been brutal.

Yep, they're out there. The question is whether or not Sen. McCain is one of them. I think he may be. Others would disagree. But merely to say he's too old to be president without looking at him specfically is bigotry, IMO.

[maxiep]

Originally Posted by HB

What coalitions would that be? Isnt this coming back to what I have been harping on? We cant bring up any significant achievement of theirs can we?

I brought up McCain/Feingold and McCain/Kennedy and did it without looking anything up. Anything else, you'll have to do by yourself.

Originally Posted by HB

Besides what experience did Bush have before taking over the country?

He was a well-liked two-term Governor from one of the largest and most-diverse states in the Union. He worked with a legislature held by Democrats and was well-liked by them too. However, I didn't vote for then-Gov. Bush, so why are you asking me to defend him?

Originally Posted by HB

I dont recall Hillarycare ever being successful

It wasn't successful, but you knew where she stood. She was willing to try to tackle a problem by acutally trying to get something done. I certainly didn't agree with it, but she worked on this problem with more than generalities.

Originally Posted by HB

And I am saying experience is overrated, especially if theres not much to show for it. Besides if you scroll through history, I am sure you will find presidents that havent had that much experience

That's a perfectly reasonable position to hold. I happen to disagree with it.

[HB]

He was a well-liked two-term Governor from one of the largest and most-diverse states in the Union. He worked with a legislature held by Democrats and was well-liked by them too. However, I didn't vote for then-Gov. Bush, so why are you asking me to defend him?

Not asking you to defend him, it helps my arguement that you shouldnt place too much emphasis on experience, after all a guy (Bush) that supposedly had all that experience turned out to be one of the worst presidents ever