Thread Tools

Display Modes

HB · 05-29-2008, 12:08 PM

By the way when you have Rupert Murdoch saying things like this about Obama

Quote:

Chairman of News Corp, new WSJ owner, and longtime torchbearer for conservative politics -- said this about Barack Obama: "He is a rock star. It's fantastic" "I love what he is saying about education." "I don't think he will win Florida.....but he will win in Ohio and the election". "I am anxious to meet him." "I want to see if he will walk the walk."

Maybe just maybe Obama's statements about uniting groups actually has some leverage

On the other hand, he doesnt sound too enthused about Mccain's chances

Quote:

About the presumptive Republican nominee, Murdoch said, "McCain is a friend of mine. He's a patriot. But he's unpredicatble. Doesn't seem to know much about the economy. He has been in Congress a long time, and you have to make a lot of compromises. So what's he really stand for?... I think he has a lot of problems."

Which goes back to what I have been telling maxiep, I still dont know what Mccain stands for besides the war

HB · 05-29-2008, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxiep

He's more policy focused than Sen. Obama. I guess people are so focused on his policy in Iraq you've missed his talks on illegal immigration and global warming. I happen to disagree with both of those policy prescriptions, but they're specific policies nevertheless.

As for the economy, I'd like to know what the crises are that involvement by the Federal Government can make better? Sometimes, you have to hand the controls over to Adam Smith. And yes, I'm one cold SOB.

He hasnt even talked about immigration once he became the nominee. To placate the conservative wing of his party, he has pretty much done an about turn on most of the issues he was talking about a year ago. Global warming is a sham, thats just an olive branch to independent voters. I laugh everytime Mccain and his advisors bring that up as their significant difference between him and Bush.

maxiep · 05-29-2008, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HB

He hasnt even talked about immigration once he became the nominee. To placate the conservative wing of his party, he has pretty much done an about turn on most of the issues he was talking about a year ago. Global warming is a sham, thats just an olive branch to independent voters. I laugh everytime Mccain and his advisors bring that up as their significant difference between him and Bush.

Yep, it sounds like your mind is made up. I envy you. You don't have to do any thinking until the first Tuesday in November.

HB · 05-29-2008, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxiep

Yep, it sounds like your mind is made up. I envy you. You don't have to do any thinking until the first Tuesday in November.

Oh come on, is that really your response? This is out there, staunch republican Pat Buchanan even said of Mccain's Global warming stance, that its a sham that Republicans arent falling for it. He went on to say that the only people who would buy into it are independents. Mccain's speech on Global warming was in Oregon, hardly a Red state.

When was the last time Mccain talked about Immigration?

Look I even posted a link from one of the most powerful Republicans in Murdoch, owner of Fox News and a friend of Mccain, who is saying Mccain has too many problems. Is that also propaganda?

maxiep · 05-29-2008, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by It's_GO_Time

I am taking at face value you are still undecide, so as a new Obama supporter let me try and sell you on him:

First, I too am concerned about a hidden agenda he may have and part of that being I'm very concerned about the tax sturcture we are going to be seeing in the upcoming 4 years (since he will be president

)

But what I like about him is that he has many qualities that I think would make an effective president: he is ambitious, driven, charismatic, intelligent, a visonary and well spoken. (I'm the kind of voter that doesn't want a president I can have a beer with . . . I don't care if the President talks above my head . . . I want the president to be much smarter than me and to be an overall an incredibly intelligent person.)

I believe Obama has a lot of traits that this country needs and at some point I have dropped my walls of skepticism and beleive that he can and will cahnge this country for the good. And really it is exciting to have adopted this position. If he has good intentions, he has the tools (and his second book clearly shows he has the vision) it takes to be a special presidentand make change in this country.

Last point you might be able to relate with. If you ever worked with a person who is a visionary in their feild, you know those people are special and don't come around very often. I am a hard worker, a tough negotiator and pick up concepts pretty well, but I could only wish to be a visonary in my industry. Those are the people that see ten steps ahead of everyone else and actually make a change in their profession. I believe Obama is a visionary and has some great plans for this nation.

Did I sell you?

I appreciate the attempt, but what you've provided is the same argument I've gotten from other friends who are supporting Sen. Obama. I'm not calling your argument hackneyed, it's just not one that I'm built to accept.

I really do envy you and your ability to believe in someone. It's been a long time since I've been truly inspired by a candidate. I think I'm just a lost cause, too skeptical to believe in anyone.

The one thing that has been great about this campaign is all the new voters that are now engaged. People have been too apathetic about their government for too long. Hopefully we can have a real debate about what the proper role of government should be in our lives. The skeptic in me believes there isn't a huge difference among Sens. Clinton, Obama and McCain. on this issue, however.[/quote]

maxiep · 05-29-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HB

Oh come on, is that really your response?

Yes, it is. Are you telling me you haven't decided for whom you're voting in November?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HB

This is out there, staunch republican Pat Buchanan even said of Mccain's Global warming stance, that its a sham that Republicans arent falling for it. He went on to say that the only people who would buy into it are indepents. Mccain's speech on Global warming was in Oregon, hardly a Red state.

Sen. McCain has long stated that his electoral strategy is to not cater to the base that elected President Bush twice and focus on independents. Pres. Bush and Sen. McCain aren't in lockstep--the 2000 primary campaign shows that simple fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HB

When was the last time Mccain talked about Immigration?

I don't know. I do know that he and Sen. Kennedy (and best wishes to him) sponsored an immigration bill that more or less favors amnesty. He doesn't have to talk about it all the time--his position is laid out on a bill with his name on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HB

Look I even posted a link from one of the most powerful Republicans in Murdoch, owner of Fox News and a friend of Mccain, who is saying Mccain has too many problems. Is that also propaganda?

I don't know how you want me to respond to this point. It's Rupert Murdoch's opinion. I'm not a Republican and I'm not supporting any candidate, so why are you trying to make me constantly defend Sen. McCain?

HB · 05-29-2008, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxiep

Yes, it is. Are you telling me you haven't decided for whom you're voting in November?

I have, but I didnt always think Obama was the best candidate. I was rooting for Edwards, when he stepped down, my focus shifted to Obama and even with that said, on this site, I have said Mitt Romney would have been a better candidate if he had been the GOP's choice.

Quote:

Sen. McCain has long stated that his electoral strategy is to not cater to the base that elected President Bush twice and focus on independents. Pres. Bush and Sen. McCain aren't in lockstep--the 2000 primary campaign shows that simple fact.

We are in 2008. John Mccain in 2000 is a completely different person from the guy running for presidency right now. Its well known that he had to placate the conservative wing of his party and in doing so, let go of some of his liberal ideas. His economic policies are no different from Bush'. His campaign repeatedly brings up global warming has the significant difference between him and Bush, if they really were that different dont you think they would bring up more policy differences.

Quote:

I don't know. I do know that he and Sen. Kennedy (and best wishes to him) sponsored an immigration bill that more or less favors amnesty. He doesn't have to talk about it all the time--his position is laid out on a bill with his name on it.

Mccain Immigration plan

Thats from his site. Any mention of amnesty there?

Here's an article from one of the most vociferous Republicans out there in Michelle Malkin on Mccain's so called Amnesty stance LINK

Quote:

After spearheading a disastrous, security-undermining illegal alien amnesty bill last year with Teddy Kennedy, “straight-talking” GOP Sen. John McCain claims he has seen the light. In TV appearances, he vows to put immigration enforcement first. On the campaign trail, he offers a perfunctory promise to strengthen border security and emphasizes the need to restore Americans’ trust in their government’s ability to defend the homeland.

“I got the message,” he told voters in South Carolina. “We will secure the borders first.”

Quote:

I don't know how you want me to respond to this point. It's Rupert Murdoch's opinion. I'm not a Republican and I'm not supporting any candidate, so why are you trying to make me constantly defend Sen. McCain?

I believe Zagsfan and Dornado already questioned you about this. Its the fact that you have these questions about Obama that could very well apply to the two other senators in the race, but you give them a free pass on it.

**Dornado** · 05-29-2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxiep

Sen. McCain has long stated that his electoral strategy is to not cater to the base that elected President Bush twice and focus on independents. Pres. Bush and Sen. McCain aren't in lockstep--the 2000 primary campaign shows that simple fact.

John McCain of 2008 is not the John McCain of 2000.

I have to say that feigning independence and objectivity is a solid argumentative tactic...

Yet Obama is the only one with the hidden agenda...

And he's the one "not running on the issues"

I post a policy statement of his and I get:

Quote:

As for his web site, those are policy prescriptions written for him by his advisors. Don't look to a web site, listen to what the candidate talks about on the stump.

Which only goes to show that you didn't even bother following the link... as each policy point was followed by numerous links to Obama's speeches.

Can't really help you see why people like Obama if you don't really want to know.

maxiep · 05-29-2008, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HB

I believe Zagsfan and Dornado already questioned you about this. Its the fact that you have these questions about Obama that could very well apply to the two other senators in the race, but you give them a free pass on it.

And I don't know how many freaking times I have to write the same damn thing over and over: Both Sen. Clinton and Sen. McCain have been in the public eye long enough for me to be comfortable with their positives and negatives. That's not the case for Sen. Obama.

There is a fascinating development on this board regarding this campaign. The question is no longer "Why do you support candidate X?"; it's become "Why don't you support Senator Obama?"

HB · 05-29-2008, 01:06 PM

^I kinda expected you to revert to that. But no I dont want to force you to support Obama, neither will I claim someone is racist for not supporting him. I ask questions that I find baffling. Like Dornado said Mccain in 2000 and Mccain right now are different people. All that experience means nothing when we still dont know what he stands for. Even his close friend in Murdoch is asking the same question

maxiep · 05-29-2008, 01:11 PM

Quote: