[maxiep]

Originally Posted by hoojacks

It would not be destroyed. It would altered.

Clearly, you have no idea what Israel stands for. It's not just a country; it's an idea.

Originally Posted by hoojacks

Probably because they were forcefully removed from their homeland.

That argument is a red herring without regard to history. Don't forget, the Jews were there first. And what do you expect the reaction of a country to be when it has been in a state of war with a group of countries for 60 years?

[SodaPopinski]

Surprised we didn't see ...

51. I single-handedly drew 75,000 inspired Americans to a rally in Portland who believe in change.

NOT TRUE: Those people were OBVIOUSLY there to see The Decemberists.



Holy crap the uber-cons have outdone themselves here.

Not that I'll expect a response, but I wonder what the three token Republicans on this board have to say about the video above with McCain's statements? They'll jump all over some email forward from the Rush Limbaugh fan club and black market pharmacy but the only thing you get from actual video evidence is a dismissive "you gotta love those 527s" comment?

Typical tactics from the uber-cons. Totally rip a Democrat for any gaffe, no matter how small, but they do some sort of hand-waving Jedi mind trick to dismiss anything bad about their boys in red.

Hilarious.

-Pop

[maxiep]

Originally Posted by HB

Ah but I never said he is without flaws, matter of fact thats one of the reasons that made me gravitate to him. The fact that he has said he is willing to own up to his mistakes

I saw the photo of him on the beach and I couldn't believe it. He was walking in the water and not on it. Certainly that photo must be doctored!

I can't think of a single candidate that has gone so far by saying so little. And he only owns up to his "mistakes" when he's forced to do so. And before he'll admit a mistake, he'll try to squirm out of it. "I didn't hear Rev. Wright say anything controversial..." "I would only meet face to face after preparations..." It's great stuff.

[HB]

Originally Posted by maxiep

I saw the photo of him on the beach and I couldn't believe it. He was walking in the water and not on it. Certainly that photo must be doctored!

I can't think of a single candidate that has gone so far by saying so little. And he only owns up to his "mistakes" when he's forced to do so. And before he'll admit a mistake, he'll try to squirm out of it. "I didn't hear Rev. Wright say anything controversial..." "I would only meet face to face after preparations..." It's great stuff.

You can blame this on the horrible perception of Bush and the GOP party right now. Also, the batch of candidates that were presented by both parties is surprisingly weak. No way Mccain is the best that the GOP has to offer.

Regarding Obama owning up when he has to, he is still a politician and a lawyer. They are adept at doing that.

[Balian]

Originally Posted by HB

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by maxiep

I can't think of a single candidate that has gone so far by saying so little. And he only owns up to his "mistakes" when he's forced to do so. And before he'll admit a mistake, he'll try to squirm out of it. "I didn't hear Rev. Wright say anything controversial..." "I would only meet face to face after preparations..." It's great stuff.

One of my favorite Obama lies didn't even make the Top 50 List:

After he finally came out and condemned Rev. Wright to salvage his political career, he declared that the Rev's comments were "offensive to all Americans." This is clearly not true, since Wright has been saying these things from his pulpit for many, many years, and his congregation has been applauding him for it . . . and Obama knows it.

[maxiep]

Originally Posted by SodaPopinski

Surprised we didn't see ...

51. I single-handedly drew 75,000 inspired Americans to a rally in Portland who believe in change.

NOT TRUE: Those people were OBVIOUSLY there to see The Decemberists.



Holy crap the uber-cons have outdone themselves here.

His ability to draw crowds and excite the populace is admirable. He's an inspiring speaker who has attracted many people I respect and who are certainly smarter than I am.

Originally Posted by SodaPopinski

Not that I'll expect a response, but I wonder what the three token Republicans on this board have to say about the video above with McCain's statements? They'll jump all over some email forward from the Rush Limbaugh fan club and black market pharmacy but the only thing you get from actual video evidence is a dismissive "you gotta love those 527s" comment?

Typical tactics from the uber-cons. Totally rip a Democrat for any gaffe, no matter how small, but they do some sort of hand-waving Jedi mind trick to dismiss anything bad about their boys in red.

Hilarious.

-Pop

Even though I'm not a Republican, I assume that you've cast me into that net, so I'll take a swing at it. I could care less about Hillary Clinton saying she was under fire in Bosnia, John McCain saying the streets of Baghdad were like those of Mayberry or that Barack Obama never heard Rev. Wright say anything controversial.

Politicans are liars. I expect it from those who don't deny being politicians. Sen. Obama has proclaimed himself to be something different. He's held himself up to a higher standard. He's asking us to elect him based on his personality, not his record or his accomplishments.

You let me know when Sen. Obama takes a firm stance on anything. Right now he proclaims "change" and lets everyone else fill in the blanks for him. He can confuse concentration camps, languages spoken in Iraq and Afghanistan and Iran and Iraq all he wants. All I want to know is what he really stands for.

[SodaPopinski]

Originally Posted by Balian

Jedi mind trick

Still waiting ...

-Pop

[HB]

Originally Posted by maxiep

You let me know when Sen. Obama takes a firm stance on anything. Right now he proclaims "change" and lets everyone else fill in the blanks for him. He can confuse concentration camps, languages spoken in Iraq and Afghanistan and Iran and Iraq all he wants. All I want to know is what he really stands for.

Hasnt he been against the war from the get go?

[maxiep]

Originally Posted by HB

You can blame this on the horrible perception of Bush and the GOP party right now.

It really not fair of me to drop this now, but I'm quite good friends with his chief economic advisor. In fact, we've authored articles together. He's told me all about Sen. Obama and why he's supporting him. I know others that are equally ga-ga. Not one of them has told me about specific policies that he would promote, only the promise of Barack Obama.

Originally Posted by HB

Also, the batch of candidates that were presented by both parties is surprisingly weak. No way Mccain is the best that the GOP has to offer.

On that, we agree completely. Both the Dems and GOP have done a terrible job this year.

Originally Posted by HB

Regarding Obama owning up when he has to, he is still a politician and a lawyer. They are adept at doing that.

I agree, but he's held himself up as something different. It turns out the more we learn about him, the more like everyone else he is.

[¹²³]

Originally Posted by hoojacks

Can you disprove God's unexistence?

Not really. Maybe this guy can.

Bush on God in 50 Quotes

1. I am driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it." Sharm el-Sheikh August 2003.

2. I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn't do my job.
Statement made during campaign visit to Amish community, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, Jul. 9, 2004

3. I'm also mindful that man should never try to put words in God's mouth. I mean, we should never ascribe natural disasters or anything else to God. We are in no way, shape, or form should a human being, play God. Washington, D.C., Jan. 14, 2005

4. God loves you, and I love you. And you can count on both of us as a powerful message that people who wonder about their future can hear. Los Angeles, California, Mar. 3, 2004

5. I tell people all the time, you're equally American if you're a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. You're equally American if you believe in an Almighty or don't believe in an Almighty. That's a sacred freedom.
Washington, D.C., Mar. 10, 2006

6. Well, first of all, you got to understand some of my view on freedom, it's not American's gift to the world. See, freedom is God -- is God given. Interview with TVR, Romania, Nov. 23, 2002

7. I'm sure there is some kind of heavy doctrinal difference, which I'm not sophisticated enough to explain to you. Explaining the issues involved in his switching from attending an Episcopal church to attending a Methodist one, (date is approximate), Jul. 1, 1994

8. I don't think you order suiciders to kill innocent men, women, and children if you're a religious person. Fond Du Lac, Wisconsin, Jul. 14, 2004

9. And there's nothing more powerful in helping change the country than the faith -- faith in Dios.
National Hispanic Prayer Breakfast, Washington, D.C., May 16, 2002

10. We believe in an Almighty, we believe in the freedom for people to worship that Almighty. They don't. Martinsburg, West Virginia, Jul. 4, 2007

11. The spirit of our people is the source of America's strength. And we go forward with trust in that spirit, confidence in our purpose, and faith in a loving God who made us to be free.
5th anniversary of the Sep. 11 attacks, White House, Sep. 11, 2006

12. Churches all across the country are reaching out -- synagogues, people from different faiths understand that it makes sense to help their parishioners realize the benefits of this plan.
Sun City Center, Florida, May 9, 2006

13.We can never replace lives, and we can't heal hearts, except through prayer.
Enterprise, Alabama, Mar. 3, 2007

14. God bless the people of this part of the world. Minneapolis, Minnesota, Aug. 4, 2007

15. I believe there's an Almighty, and I believe the Almighty's great gift to each man and woman in this world is the desire to be free. This isn't America's gift to the world, it is a universal gift to the world, and people want to be free. Manhattan, Kansas, Jan. 23, 2006

16. I couldn't imagine somebody like Osama bin Laden understanding the joy of Hanukkah
White House, Dec. 10, 200117.

17. I see an opportunity at home when I hear the stories of Christian and Jewish women alike, helping women of cover, Arab American women go shop because they're afraid to leave their home.
Washington, D.C., Oct. 4, 2001

18. It's a sign from above. Comment made when television light caught fire above crowd, Sioux Falls, South Dakota, Mar. 9, 2001

19. I did denounce it. I de- I denounced it. I denounced interracial dating. I denounced anti-Catholic bigacy... bigotry. Responding to attacks on his visit to ultra-conservative Bob Jones University, Greenville, South Carolina, Feb. 25, 2000

20. We are grateful for the freedoms we enjoy, grateful for the loved ones who give meaning to our lives, and grateful for the many gifts of this prosperous land. On Thanksgiving we acknowledge that all of these things, and life itself, come not from the hand of man, but from Almighty God.
Washington, D.C., Nov. 30, 2002

21. We say in our country, everybody matters, everybody is precious in the sight of an Almighty.
Northern State University, Aberdeen, South Dakota, Oct. 31, 2002

22. We love the fact that people can worship an almighty God any way they see fit here in America.
Phoenix, Arizona, Sep. 28, 2002

23. And I just -- I cannot speak strongly enough about how we must collectively get after those who kill in the name of -- in the name of some kind of false religion.
Press appearance with King Abdullah of Jordan, Aug. 1, 2002

24. We are commanded by God and called by our conscience to love others as we want to be loved ourselves. Ohio State University, Jun. 14, 2002

25. By being active citizens in your church or your synagogue, or for those Muslims, in your mosque, and adhering to the admission to love a neighbor just like you'd like to be loved yourself, that's how we can stand up.
Remarks to the cattle industry annual convention and trade show, Denver, Colorado, Feb. 8, 2002

26. And we base it, our history, and our decision making, our future, on solid values. The first value is, we're all God's children. Washington, D.C., Jul. 16, 2003

27. One of the great things about this country is a lot of people pray. Washington, D.C., Apr. 13, 2003

28. And there's no doubt in my mind, when the United States acts abroad and home, we do so based upon values -- particularly the value that we hold dear to our hearts, and that is, everybody ought to be free. I want to repeat what I said during my State of the Union to you. Liberty is not America's gift to the world. What we believe strongly, and what we hold dear, is liberty is God's gift to mankind. And we hold that value precious. And we believe it is true. White Sulphur Springs, West Virginia, Feb. 9, 2003

29. This great, powerful nation is motivated not by power for power's sake, but because of our values. If everybody matters, if every life counts, then we should hope everybody has the great God's gift of freedom. Grand Rapids, Michigan, Jan. 29, 2003

30. The short-term objective of this country is to find an enemy and bring them to justice before they strike us. The long-term objective is to make this world a more free and hopeful and peaceful place. I believe we'll succeed because freedom is the Almighty God's gift to every man and woman in this world.
Portsmouth, Ohio, Sep. 10, 2004

31. And if you choose to -- if you believe in the Almighty, you can -- you're equally an American. If you're a Jew, Christian or Muslim or Hindi or whatever. It is one of the great traits and traditions of our country, where people can worship the way you see fit. Interview on Larry King Live (CNN),, Aug. 15, 2004

32. By the way, to whom much has been given, much is owed. Not only are we leading the world in terms of encouraging freedom