[Ed O]

Originally Posted by barfo

Well, looks like he took your advice.

Yep.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2.../index.html?hp

Senator Barack Obama is ending his membership at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, a congregation he has belonged to for about two decades and one that had become a lightning rod in his Democratic presidential bid.

Mr. Obama informed his campaign advisers of his decision today, according to people familiar with the situation, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak for the candidate. Mr. Obama is scheduled to explain his decision tonight in South Dakota.

He had to do it.

Ed O.

[MARIS61]

I'd really feel better having a President with the stones to admit he realizes there is no God.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by MARIS61

I'd really feel better having a President with the stones to admit he realizes there is no God.

I don't know if I want one who realizes that, rather one that doesn't know one way or the other, and is open to things from both sides. Plus, I'd like one who doesn't have to trumpet out their religious beliefs or show there religion as proof they're a better person.

[Balian]

There is no good way of spinning this. After 20 years seating in the pew, he finally realized the church is out of steps with his belief? One could conclude he is one of these:

1. For 20 years, he found nothing extraordinary wrong with the church's teachings. Due to political pressure, he decided to quit now.
2. He is ignorant of the church's teachings. Belonging to a Christian church was just a political token for a political career. He went to church now and then just to keep up with the facade.

In my opinion, its a combination of both. Judging from his derogatory statements he made about religious people in the past, he might be agnostic at best. Radical left ideology is not that uncommon in black churches. Obama is after all, the most liberal senator in DC.

[MARIS61]

Originally Posted by Dan

Plus, I'd like one who doesn't have to trumpet out their religious beliefs or show there religion as proof they're a better person.

AMEN TO THAT, BROTHER!

[e_blazer1]

Originally Posted by MARIS61

I'd really feel better having a President with the stones to admit he realizes there is no God.

For me, I'll take one who simply has the stones to say what he believes to be true either way, or even to say it's nobody's business but his own. I'll take truthfulness over obligatory religiosity any day.

BTW, I'm always curious as to why some people feel so absolutely certain that there is no God. I can understand disdain for all of the awful things done by man in God's name throughout history. I can understand concerns about apparent conflicts between the creation stories in the Bible and scientific evidence about our universe and evolution. But, given all of that, how do you come to believe with such certainty that there is no God? Care to share your thoughts, MARIS?

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by MARIS61

I'd really feel better having a President with the stones to admit he realizes there is no God.

But that would instantly reveal his shallowness . . .

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by Dan

So are you going to complain about the churches that openly support McCain?

Absolutely. Partisan politics has no place in a house of worship.

[barfo]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

But that would instantly reveal his shallowness . . .

So would you prefer a Muslim president, or an atheist president?

barfo

[Balian]

Originally Posted by barfo

So would you prefer a Muslim president, or an atheist president?

barfo

Christian, Muslim, agnostic, atheist ...it doesn't matter now. He has been exposed as a fraud one way or another. There is no consistency in his narrative. He is just another run of the mill politician after all. So much for a new kind of leader. As one columnist puts it:

What Obama did today may have been politically necessary. It was certainly politically expedient. And it is yet one more blow to Obama’s image as a different kind of politician. In fact, as we’ve learned over the last few months, Obama appears to be a Chicago politician through and through.

[barfo]

Originally Posted by Balian

Christian, Muslim, agnostic, atheist ...it doesn't matter. He is exposed as a fraud one way or another. There is no consistency. He is just another run of the mill politician after all. So much for a new kind of leader.

Wasn't talking to you, and you missed the point. But, uh, thanks for playing, as you like to say.

barfo

[mook]

Pfleger, too, issued an apology, saying he was sorry if his comments offended Clinton or anyone else.

any apology with the word "if" in it isn't an apology.

[Ed O]

Originally Posted by mook

any apology with the word "if" in it isn't an apology.

That's the first layer to that... the second one, of course, is even if one changes the "if" to a "that", it's not the kind of apology most people would consider a "real" apology.

"I'm sorry that what I said hurt your feelings" is NOT the same as "I'm sorry that I said what hurt your feelings."

It's often an honest reply, but it's not the same.

Ed O.