[maxiep]

In a meeting today, she not only agreed to the idea, but brought up that she would be willing to be the VP.

On the surface, it looks like the Democratic Dream Ticket. But beneath the surface, she just declared for 2012 and is running against Sen. Obama in the general campaign.

First, she splits the headlines

Second, she forces Obama's hand to deal with the VP decision before he's ready.

Third, he's going to force him to either ask her, which makes him look like a typical pol and not a change agent. If he does ask her, she'll find a reason to decline. If he doesn't ask her (which she hopes he won't), he exaserbates the already angry Clinton base-- older women, Latinos and working-class voters. Those are exactly the voters that have crossed over and voted Republican before.

Make no mistake, she doesn't want the VP slot. What she also doesn't want is for Sen. Obama to become President Obama. By sending this message, she's tripping up Sen. Obama's first steps in the general.

This is a stunning development.

[Xericx]

Obama would be foolish to have Hillary in the VP slot knowing the Clinton's body count and history.

[maxiep]

Originally Posted by Xericx

Obama would be foolish to have Hillary in the VP slot knowing the Clinton's body count and history.

And Hillary Clinton knows that he can't ask her without giving up his mantle as agent of change. Sen. Clinton is trying to kneecap Sen. Obama in hopes of becoming President Clinton, part deux.

[Dornado]

Originally Posted by maxiep

And Hillary Clinton knows that he can't ask her without giving up his mantle as agent of change. Sen. Clinton is trying to kneecap Sen. Obama in hopes of becoming President Clinton, part deux.

I think if you've got a black man and a woman running on the same ticket you can keep the "change" slogan without much problem... you alter the message a bit, but I don't think it would be a problem for him.

[Balian]

Hillary Clinton is not a viable candidate beyond this election cycle. She will be 4 years older and that much more unbearable for the electorate. To be it bluntly, the last thing this country needs is an old hag running it. A lot of people preferred Obama for this reason.

When men see and hear Hillary, the first thing they think about is their ex-wife.

[HB]

She's definitely taken away his press so far. But regardless its an historic night. No one ever thought he could do this, I think picking Hillary has its advantages, but she might have more disadvantages in the long run. The Clintons baggage is just ripe for picking by the GOP

On the other hand, 17 million people voted for her. Thats an awful lot of people who believe in her. Obama cant afford to piss them off.

[mook]

the solution is obvious for Obama. find a white, 55 year old woman who isn't Hillary Clinton to be your Vice President. there must be dozens of viable women. he could then say, "Look, I found a Hillary without all the Clinton baggage."

what do all the angry old women say then? that this other woman is a token? that seems pretty disparaging, provided Obama chooses a woman with a strong political career.

in fact, I don't see how he doesn't do exactly that. he's got to throw a pretty big bone to these angry women. but there are other options besides just picking Hillary.

my own mom is a Hillaryite, and I can't imagine her ever being satisfied under any other circumstance. she might vote democrat in the fall, but she's also talked about just not voting. if she had the chance to elect the first female Vice President, even if it isn't Hillary, I think she'd be excited.

[HB]

Originally Posted by mook

the solution is obvious for Obama. find a white, 55 year old woman who isn't Hillary Clinton to be your Vice President. there must be dozens of viable women. he could then say, "Look, I found a Hillary without all the Clinton baggage."

what do all the angry old women say then? that this other woman is a token? that seems pretty disparaging, provided Obama chooses a woman with a strong political career.

in fact, I don't see how he doesn't do exactly that. he's got to throw a pretty big bone to these angry women. but there are other options besides just picking Hillary.

my own mom is a Hillaryite, and I can't imagine her ever being satisfied under any other circumstance. she might vote democrat in the fall, but she's also talked about just not voting. if she had the chance to elect the first female Vice President, even if it isn't Hillary, I think she'd be excited.

He cant do that. Katherine Sebellius is an excellent choice, but Hillary supporters will ask, whats wrong with Hillary? Why did he choose another woman over her? She had 17 million people vote for her, obviously she is shown she is worthy of the nomination. I dont like the choice personally, but I dont see how he can pick another woman over her.

[maxiep]

Originally Posted by HB

She's definitely taken away his press so far. But regardless its an historic night. No one ever thought he could do this, I think picking Hillary has its advantages, but she might have more disadvantages in the long run. The Clintons baggage is just ripe for picking by the GOP

On the other hand, 17 million people voted for her. Thats an awful lot of people who believe in her. Obama cant afford to piss them off.

I agree completely. She has given him two choices: the frying pan or the fire. She should have done the right thing and let him have this night.

The happiest people? The people working for Sen. McCain.

[Balian]

Originally Posted by mook

the solution is obvious for Obama. find a white, 55 year old woman who isn't Hillary Clinton to be your Vice President. there must be dozens of viable women. he could then say, "Look, I found a Hillary without all the Clinton baggage."

what do all the angry old women say then? that this other woman is a token? that seems pretty disparaging, provided Obama chooses a woman with a strong political career.

in fact, I don't see how he doesn't do exactly that. he's got to throw a pretty big bone to these angry women. but there are other options besides just picking Hillary.

my own mom is a Hillaryite, and I can't imagine her ever being satisfied under any other circumstance. she might vote democrat in the fall, but she's also talked about just not voting. if she had the chance to elect the first female Vice President, even if it isn't Hillary, I think she'd be excited.

Or John McCain could take that route and pick Liz Dole as the VP. The only good female choice for VP is Jennifer Granholm of Michigan. But guess what, she doesn't have a good track record and she is not a natural US citizen. The others lack experience or less appealing one way or another ...like Janet Napolitano. She is just unattractive.

[maxiep]

Originally Posted by HB

He cant do that. Katherine Sebellius is an excellent choice, but Hillary supporters will ask, whats wrong with Hillary? Why did he choose another woman over her? She had 17 million people vote for her, obviously she is shown she is worthy of the nomination. I dont like the choice personally, but I dont see how he can pick another woman over her.

HB, get outta my head! That is EXACTLY right.

[maxiep]

Originally Posted by Balian

Or John McCain could take that route and pick Liz Dole as the VP. The only good female choice for VP is Jennifer Granholm of Michigan. But guess what, she doesn't have a good track record and she is not a natural US citizen.

Condi Rice would also be another choice for him if he wants to appeal to disaffected Hillary voters. That being said, he needs economic and executive experience in the general. I actually think Mitt Romney is his best choice for VP. He knows a ton about the economy (he's VERY well regarded at Bain Capital); he won the Governor's office in a state with an admittedly leftist leaning in terms of government; he brings the conservative base with him so McCain can go to the center; and he ensures Michigan for the Republicans. The question about Romney is whether or not he can connect with voters, whether McCain can work with him and whether or not being LDS is held against him.

[mook]

Originally Posted by HB

He cant do that. Katherine Sebellius is an excellent choice, but Hillary supporters will ask, whats wrong with Hillary? Why did he choose another woman over her? She had 17 million people vote for her, obviously she is shown she is worthy of the nomination. I dont like the choice personally, but I dont see how he can pick another woman over her.

really? given all the friction between Obama and Clinton, the numerous scandals, the Bosnia lie, everything else, you think it'd be hard for older women to accept that there might be another woman in America equally or more qualified than Hillary?

don't get me wrong. my mom has fully bought into the Hillary Clinton brand. but I think you could sell her a different, less controversial woman just as easily.

women have come to identify with Hillary because she's been in the spotlight. if Obama picks a different woman with a more uplifting personal story and an accomplished track record as a governor, I doubt most women will grumble for long.

after all, for all Hillary's "experience," she's never actually held an executive office. if you compare her to someone like Sebellius, I think Sebellius looks quite favorable, or at least a pretty good compromise.

the real issue, though, is what if Obama doesn't choose a female VP. how do you think yet another all-male ticket will go over with Hillary-ites like my mom? because when I talk to her, I really doubt she'd turn up to vote in the fall if that happens.