[Talkhard]

If you can't understand why U.S. healthcare is so costly, this video may help. These kinds of situations are happening all over the country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLJxmJZXgNI

[Dan]

So it's not the president who waged a war that's cost us billions of dollars and screwed the economy up that we need to worry about (and more importantly, cost us at least 4100 US lives)..what we NEED to worry about is those damn Mexicans.

10 billion a month vs those damn dirty Mexicans taking our jobs (er..no one wants those jobs) and taking our health care!

Oh my god, what was that over there!!!! Look!

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by Dan

Oh my god, what was that over there!!!! Look!

That's the war in Iraq!! It's awful. It's horrible. Let's not look away from it for a single second to see what's happening right here in America with the illegal aliens and what it is costing us. Hey, it's no big deal. Don't worry about it. Keep your eyes on Iraq--that's the only real problem we should be worried about!!!

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

That's the war in Iraq!! It's awful. It's horrible. Let's not look away from it for a single second to see what's happening right here in America with the illegal aliens and what it is costing us. Hey, it's no big deal. Don't worry about it. Keep your eyes on Iraq--that's the only real problem we should be worried about!!!

How about we not look away at whats happening right here in "America" when it comes to whats being done to the constitution? Or the environment? Or the economy? Or gas prices? Or our poor tax systems? Or our schools? Or education? Or the home mortgage crisis? Or the horrible treatment of the vets when they return? Or the inadequate funding of the troops when they're over there (oh, I know, that's because liberals hate "America").

It's incredibly rich for people on the right to act like we shouldn't be only paying attention to Iraq, considering all the venom spewed at those who were against it and are still against it. It's ironic how now all the sudden once the war went absolutely against the Republicans, that they now act like it's *not* the issue. "Oh, don't mind that. Thats not the real issue, it's um...those damn Mexicans taking our jobs! er..I mean, our healthcare money!"

The war IS the issue. It is the reason why gas is reaching 5 bucks a gallon. It IS the reason why we're spending a MOTHER load of money that the country doesn't have. It IS the reason why at min 4100 citizens of the US are dead. To try to distract people from the real issues, is very dated in it's mode of thinking. This is the same mindset that tricked us into thinking we needed to put Japanese-Americans in camps during WW2. They're not "real Americans" and might be enemies!

This is the same mindset that caused us to refer to things as "Liberty Fries" during multiple times during our countries history. The French are our real enemy, they aren't supporting us!

It's a distraction from what needs to be talked about, the war and the economy. The "illegals" is a small blip on the radar. If they're even taxing us at the amount of money we're being taxed because of the War, I'll eat my shoes.

It's a distraction because republicans know they're going to get destroyed politically when it comes to debate over the war. They know it. I know it. And most importantly, you know it.

So they figure they'll just go back to their base of picking on those damn immigrants! They're stealing our jobs! They're mixing with "our" people! Get them out!

Remember Pearl Harbor!!!!

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by Dan

How about we not look away at whats happening right here in "America" when it comes to whats being done to the constitution? Or the environment? Or the economy? Or gas prices? Or our poor tax systems? Or our schools? Or education? Or the home mortgage crisis? Or the horrible treatment of the vets when they return? Or the inadequate funding of the troops when they're over there (oh, I know, that's because liberals hate "America").

So the constitution has been "destroyed," but our healthcare system is in great shape. Is that what you're trying to say? The "environment" has been totally mucked up by Bush (even though there's been no drilling in ANWAR), and the education system is a total mess, and gas prices are out of control, all because of the Republicans? Is that really your position?

Typical tomfoolery by the left: Create a bogus issue like the "destruction" of the U.S. constitution while ignorning the very real destruction of the U.S. healthcare system. Do you have any idea how many hospitals in this country have gone out of business in recent years, due to the illegal immigrant problem? Or do you realize how pathetic it is for you to harp on "veterans' benefits" and "funding for the troops" when you and your ilk have done everything possible to undermine our military campaign in Iraq?? Any idea at all?

The war IS the issue.

It's a real issue for our troops and those who are serious about the war on terrorism. For people like you, however, it's just a political issue which you think can help you win the election.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Talkhard

So the constitution has been "destroyed," but our healthcare system is in great shape.

did I say that? Did I even come close to saying that?

The Constitution is far more important than our health care system (I actually don't think we need UHC, and thats from someone who currently doesn't have healthchare.

Is that what you're trying to say? The "environment" has been totally mucked up by Bush (even though there's been no drilling in ANWAR),

thats the ONLY thing that you bring up? The drilling in anwar (which I'm actually not against)?

and the education system is a total mess, and gas prices are out of control, all because of the Republicans? Is that really your position?

Yah, thats exactly what I said.

Cept it's not.

Ask any teacher, NCLB (A Bush idea) is dumb. In fact, calling it dumb is an insult to anyone who is dumb. So thats a Republican thing, even if some Democrats were dumb enough to buy into it.

Gas prices are high because we went to war in an area where we had no business going. And who was the guy behind it? The President.

What party is he affiliated with? again?

Typical tomfoolery by the left: Create a bogus issue like the "destruction" of the U.S. constitution while ignorning the very real destruction of the U.S. healthcare system.

You consider the constitution bogus? Thats pretty said. You do know that *conservative* scholars are even saying this, right?

Do you have any idea how many hospitals in this country have gone out of business in recent years, due to the illegal immigrant problem? Or do you realize how pathetic it is for you to harp on "veterans' benefits" and "funding for the troops" when you and your ilk have done everything possible to undermine our military campaign in Iraq?? Any idea at all?

Oh my god, I knew you'd pull that one out of your ***. The democrats haven't done anything to "undermine" the campaign, thats just a pathetic battle cry people use to use big words with no backing behind it. Show me where it's the democrats who didn't fund things.

It's a real issue for our troops and those who are serious about the war on terrorism. For people like you, however, it's just a political issue which you think can help you win the election.

Oh, so the mexicans aren't a political issue for you which you think can help the republicans remain in office?

Please, stop insulting my intelligence and anyone else who reads this forum. You constantly bring up issues that you use as political issues, thinking those issues will help the Republicans remain in office.

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by Dan

Please, stop insulting my intelligence and anyone else who reads this forum. You constantly bring up issues that you use as political issues, thinking those issues will help the Republicans remain in office.

Just for the record, I posted this video because I'm actually concerned about the illegal immigration problem and what is happening to the hospitals in this country. I had no political agenda whatsover. This is an issue that keeps getting swept under the rug by BOTH parties in Congress, and I'm outraged by it. I think this should concern every American citizen, Democrat or Republican.

[HB]

Do they pay taxes?

[Minstrel]

Originally Posted by Dan

You consider the constitution bogus? Thats pretty sad. You do know that *conservative* scholars are even saying this, right?

There's no such thing as "conservative scholars." All scholars are intellectual elitists, are the enemy of Real Americans(tm) and try to enslave people with fancy reasoning and theorizing that everyone knows doesn't work in the real world.

"Knowing things" is a liberal deficiency. Conservatives are correctly distrustful of people with educations and facts.

[nikolokolus]

As someone who worked as a paramedic for 5 years and saw the healthcare system from the inside I can't believe this non-sensical assertion that Illegal Aliens are the reason our hospitals have a solvency problem. You want to know what the real problem is? we have an interventionist system versus a preventative system and the reason we have this interventionist system is because people don't go to the doctor or get treatment for ailments when those ailments are small problems and easily treatable, but instead they wait until they balloon into crises -- when people don't have health insurance they let things go longer than they should, because they're afraid of bankrupting themselves.

The second component is the fact that Tort claims are completely out of control, which in turn raises malpractice insurance rates for doctor and those rates get passed along to the patient not only in the form of more expensive tests, but the fact that doctors will throw every diagnostic test in the book at a patient as a form of CYA, a typical example is ordering batteries of diagnostic imaging tests like CT scans for back pain when a simple x-ray can give you just as much information about any underlying structural defects.

Lastly, the way insurance works best is by distributed risk; the larger the pool of insured patients the more spread out those costs become which in turn makes individual rates lower. The fact that employers are largely responsible for providing insurance benefits to employees makes the pool smaller than it ought to be, factor in that small firms, operating on tighter margins, can't afford to provide employees with health-care and the pool shrinks even further, placing even more burden on the existing rate payers.

The whole health-care system needs a comprehensive overhaul from top to bottom (real tort reform, reducing malpractice insurance rates, changing reimbursement policies, creating less burden on businesses to provide healthcare (which frees up more capital for reinvestment), and changing our system from an interventionist model to a preventative model which could yield considerable cost savings.

Trying to pin the rising cost of health-care on Illegal aliens is fallacious and grossly overestimates their overall impact on the bottom line. The fact is that it's the uninsured using the ER (where they can't be turned away) as a means of primary care, and the corresponding reimbursement rates being so low for this kind of care that hospitals then overcharge the insured to recoup some of these losses.

I wouldn't suggest that UHC alone is the end all be all of reforming our healthcare system, but it would part of a larger overhaul, and the end result would actually be lower costs for all Americans if we had leaders with the political will to tackle this issue comprehensively.

[blazerboy30]

Originally Posted by Dan

How about we not look away at whats happening right here in "America" when it comes to whats being done to the constitution? Or the environment? Or the economy? Or gas prices? Or our poor tax systems? Or our schools? Or education? Or the home mortgage crisis? Or the horrible treatment of the vets when they return? Or the inadequate funding of the troops when they're over there (oh, I know, that's because liberals hate "America").

So you're upset about the environment, AND you are upset about high gas prices? Exactly what is the mortgage "crisis"? People making bad decisions to buy a house they couldn't afford? A market bubble that burst, and prices are correcting? What a crisis!! We should count on the government to bail these people out and keep artificially inflating the bubble... that will never come back to bite us.

Maybe we should try to lower gas prices. I'm sure that our oil demand would decrease, and our environment will thank us. Sounds like a great idea.

Your whinning is so typical, and so worthless. It is complaining, with your complaints being contradictory, and providing no solutions. Everybody can complain and whine. Providing solutions is a much better skill to have.

[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by blazerboy30