[Talkhard]

Originally Posted by stockfire

Good grief, get off the Hilter garbage.

Never heard of of Hilter. Is he any relation to Adolf Hitler, the tyrant and mass-murderer that American forces defeated in Europe in World War Two?

Why is it that people keep bringing this up? You realize that there were other counties fighting Hitler before we showed up to the party, right?

What other counties would that be? New York County? Alameda? Maricopa? I hear those boys from Cook County, Illinois, are pretty good soldiers. I'm sure they were partly responsible for defeating Hitler, too.

WE didn't defeat Hitler. We just tell the rest of the world that we did.

Really? So there was no need for us to send hundreds of thousands of troops to Europe? The French and the Swiss could have handled Hitler's forces all by themselves? Gee, what a relief.

[BG7]

Originally Posted by Ed O

Why? South Ossetia is part of Georgia. Ask any member of the UN.

Why should they be comdemned for putting down rebels?

Ed O.

If all they did was put down rebels then it would be fine. But they were slaughtering civilians left and right. Russia was just peacekeeping. They obviously overstepped by going into Georgia, past South Ossetia, and whooping their ***. But Georgia tried to blitzkrieg South Ossetia under the blanket of the Olympics, and Russia taught them a big lesson.

[Hector]

BG7, you brought the thread back to its original topic! Thanks. These "Sponsored Links" are funny. You know, they go where the 2nd post on the page would go. Modern technology figures out the changing thread topic. During the Angola game I got ads inviting me to meet Angola women. Now I'm getting

Adolph Hitler's Real Fate
Was it suicide, murder, or escape? Compelling facts reveal the story!
www.hitlersfate.net

[Ed O]

Originally Posted by BG7

If all they did was put down rebels then it would be fine. But they were slaughtering civilians left and right. Russia was just peacekeeping. They obviously overstepped by going into Georgia, past South Ossetia, and whooping their ***. But Georgia tried to blitzkrieg South Ossetia under the blanket of the Olympics, and Russia taught them a big lesson.

Russia was just "peacekeeping", huh? Peacekeeping after giving out citizenship to South Ossetians? Peacekeeping by placing troops there to undermine the Georgian sovereignity in the region?

Russia wanted this war so they could teach Georgia a lesson. So they could damage the oil line and they could undermine a key ally of the USA in the region.

I find it pretty funny that someone would look at Russia, after they've invaded Georgia proper (even you admit they "overstepped"), and ignore the way the Georgians were forced into military protection of their soil.

I guess it gives people who already hate Bush and American policies another reason to pile on...

Ed O.

[Hector]

Georgia started it. Russia responded. Georgia has 3 or 6 million people, something like that. No contest. If Russia responded to actions like Bush did, they would have blasted the capital to smithereens.

[maxiep]

Saying the Georgians are responsible for this war is like saying the Israelis started the 1967 Six Day War or that Czechoslovakia forced the Nazis to intervene in the Sudetenland.

[rocketeer]

Originally Posted by stockfire

If you pay attention to the history of WWII as told by British Textbooks compared to US Textbooks, they show different start dates of WWII. Why? Because we think the War started when we got involved.

they show different dates because the war for us started when we got involved. is that really hard to understand? the dates in british textbooks would be different because the war started for them at a different time.

[maxiep]

Originally Posted by stockfire

Good grief, get off the Hilter garbage. Why is it that people keep bringing this up? You realize that there were other counties fighting Hitler before we showed up to the party, right? WE didn't defeat Hitler. We just tell the rest of the world that we did. If you pay attention to the history of WWII as told by British Textbooks compared to US Textbooks, they show different start dates of WWII. Why? Because we think the War started when we got involved.

The US is like the bandwagon fan of WWII, we let everyone play the regular season and ignored it, then bought playoff tickets for the championship and claimed to be the real fans.

If not for the United States, from Lend-Lease through North Africa, Sicily, the Merchant Marine and being the Aresnal of Democracy, Europe would be under German control today. If you wish to use the metaphor of sport, if we arrived a bit late for the game, we joined the team down by five touchdowns and helped to lead them to victory.

[BG7]

Originally Posted by Ed O

Russia was just "peacekeeping", huh? Peacekeeping after giving out citizenship to South Ossetians? Peacekeeping by placing troops there to undermine the Georgian sovereignity in the region?

Russia wanted this war so they could teach Georgia a lesson. So they could damage the oil line and they could undermine a key ally of the USA in the region.

I find it pretty funny that someone would look at Russia, after they've invaded Georgia proper (even you admit they "overstepped"), and ignore the way the Georgians were forced into military protection of their soil.

I guess it gives people who already hate Bush and American policies another reason to pile on...

Ed O.

South Ossetians didn't want to be part of Georgia because Georgia was persecuting them. We supported self determination in that region, when it was only a one way street that areas could leave the Soviet Union. Now that an area is self determining that they want to be part of Russia, it's wrong? That is completely hypocritical.

Say if there was a region in Germany near the border in France. Say they had a leader named Rudolph Hickler who went into that region...German owned, but those people don't want to be part of Germany because they are being persecuted, and kills a small rebel force, and then goes onto just start slaughtering tons of civilians in this Jewish region, and France steps in to protect these people, and prior to this, offered these people ways to become French citizens to protect them from their persecution in Germany. Would France be wrong in this part?

[Minstrel]

Originally Posted by maxiep

If you wish to use the metaphor of sport, if we arrived a bit late for the game, we joined the team down by five touchdowns and helped to lead them to victory.

We arrived in time for the final drive. Team Germany had already imploded before we got there, in a costly war against Russia that broke its back. The US certainly made a difference, but there's no way Europe would be under German control without the US. Perhaps if Germany hadn't thrown itself into a doomed effort in Russia, the US would have been necessary for victory.

[Minstrel]

..

[BG7]

Also, here is why I think the idea that USA textbooks only include the dates America was in the war comes from.

In high school, Freshman year, students take a US History class. Of course they are only going to cover the US dates. Then their sophomore years they take a World History class from the earliest civilizations to the present, skipping stuff like WW1 and WW2 because they covered that stuff the prior year in US History. Then Junior/Senior year, they take some combination of Economics, Sociology, and American Government to round out their social studies curriculum, so they never get the dates.

But for someone like me, I took a 2 week remediation course in American Government, and instead of taking Economics and Sociology, I took 2 years of European history classes from the Enlightenment to Terrorism. And we extensively covered World War 2.

I know at most schools, the top 15% of students or so should be taking some form of a European history course, so they should know about when WW2 really started. Then there is another 45% or so, in the normal curriculum, who most only know about America's involvement in the war, with the few who watch a ton of History Channel, who know the whole story. Then you have that other 40%, who just skip school, drop out, etc. who couldn't tell you who was on what side in WW2, or when it was even.

[maxiep]

Originally Posted by Minstrel

We arrived in time for the final drive. Team Germany had already imploded before we got there, in a costly war against Russia that broke its back. The US certainly made a difference, but there's no way Europe would be under German control without the US. Perhaps if Germany hadn't thrown itself into a doomed effort in Russia, the US would have been necessary for victory.

I'd ask you to check your timeline regarding Barbarossa as well as our contributions. Who do you think gave the UK the resources it needed to fight off the Nazis and win the Battle of Britain? And when do you think the Soviet Union turned the tide on the Germans? Here's the answer: Stalingrad in 1943. We entered the war over a year before. Who do you think supplied the Soviets with the attack aircraft and other wartime materiel? Our shipments to Murmansk were instrumental in helping the Soviets.

It was the threat we posed on the Western Front that tied down German troops to keep from defeating the Soviets in 1942 once the weather improved and resupply of men and materiel were possible.