Playmaker0017

Nor was it a fluke that his stats all but went under 19/10 after Wallace was traded.

Nor was it a fluke that after the all-star break teams adjusted to him a little more.

Yes, nowhere near 25/12. Are you daft. Read it a third time.

The "he" I was referring to was the mythical he that scored 15/8. That guy was no where near 20/10 .... I don't care if that guy scored 29/17 through half a season.

No - it had nothing to do with Reef - Zach was not even close to 25/12. Not close in the least.

Play.

Focus

Let see...
Reef for Kidd.

Blazer starter will looks like.

Kidd - 5 yrs left MAX
DA - 3yrs left
Miles - 7yrs(?) left close to 10
Zach - 7yrs left MAX
Theo - 4 yrs left 10

That will be ur starting 5 for the next 3yrs, I am too lazy to do the math but average age will be around 30 and take up all ur cap space for sure. Isn't Blazer want to cut cost, build young and good image?

__________________
Stay focus!

NateBishop3

The fact remains that Zach Randolph AVERAGED 20 points and 10 rebounds for the 2003-2004 season. You can't take that away from him. Yes, he went through a slump towards the end of the season, but he adjusted, and he picked up his scoring to close out the year.

By the way, his dip in points co-insided directly with the acquiring of Shareef. It's obvious these two can't play together. Everyone knows it. Yet somehow it's Randolph's fault.

I'm sure there have been times in Shareef's career where he went through slumps, but rebounded and boosted his numbers again...

And no, I'm not "daft".... You said "He was nowhere NEAR 20/10."

Maybe you should have CLARIFIED that statement instead of assuming we knew what you were talking about...

Fact is, there was a period of time last year, an EXTENDED period of time, where Randolph was putting up HUGE numbers. He has done it before, and he can do it again. Randolph is only 23 years old. Do you think this is as good as he's going to get?

Scout226

I hope he gets his money too, just not the max(at least from the Blazers). Oustside of what Gasol and AK got, Zach isn't worth the Max. Either is Gasol or AK.

Zach has the skills and ability to be worth a max contract on the court, but off the court he takes a hit. It's like giving an injury prone player a max contract. You don't know how much they'll be around. With Zach, you don't really know if he'll be personally involved in the next shooting. Or what financial liabilty he'll have with the Blazers marketing. At least with AK and Gasol, they haven't showed any problems to portray an PR problems.

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2004 Scout226

Hello Fellow ESPN Refugees(PBF, E, JW, WR/SSCF, Keebs, Yak, I_HateDamon, Gramps, TradeSheedNow,Chris_In_PDX,Crandc, sa1177)..

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Storyteller

Correct on the first part - he'll be BYC next year (starting on July 1st) if he signs an extension.

However, his salary (for the purpose of matching for a trade) this year will only be $1.8 million if he does NOT sign an extension. Once he signs an extension off of his rookie scale deal, his "trade salary" is the average of this year's salary plus every year of the extension.

So, say he signs a max extension ($86.4 million for 6 years). His salary for trade purposes in 2004-05 would be a whopping $12.6 million! ($86.4 + $1.8 = $88.2. $88.2/7 = $12.6) This is known as a "poison pill" and is designed to prevent teams from giving players huge extensions and then immediately trading them. Note - this is only for players signing extensions off of their rookie deals.

Playmaker0017

To put it succinctly - yes.

Playmaker0017

DUPE.

Playmaker0017

Actually, I'd have an easier time taking that away from a guy who did it for one year than a guy who has done it for 8.

Yet, it seems like a lot of Blazers fans think it is easy to assume that a guy will make a leap from 20/10 to 25/12 if he has one year of proving he can barely hold 20/10 and to assume that a guy who averaged 20/9 for eight years will fall to 11/6.

You want to talk about taking things away from someone.

I don't believe it was a slump.

It is. He refuses to play team ball. He's the one who spent the final weeks of the season complaining. He's the one who made the transition difficult... not Reef.

Not for half a season.

Just to belabor the point - yes. In fact, I think he overachieved due to poor coaching. He played outside the team concept. If he were forced to play team basketball, I think his stats (especially the rebounding) would suffer.

Play.

RG

Zach's numbers fell off, without a doubt. That is a fact that can't be disputed. Why they fell off is more of the debate here. Some choose to call it a "slump" which has no tangible evidence, at least no more than a "curse" or a "jinx". I have to say that I think it had more to do with defenses figuring out what he was about and actually talking about how to rattle his game. He came out took the league by surprise and they made seccond half adjustments. Now it's his turn, can he respond? We'll see, but right now I'd have to say Playmaker holds the evidence based arguements.

__________________
"The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge."
Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)

HKF

At end of the day, my question would be, why would anyone want Shareef Abdur-Rahim over Zach Randolph if winning basketball games is a priority? Shareef's going to take a significant paycut after this year. Maybe in excess of 6-8 million and deservedly so.

__________________
My favorite NBA players: Deron Williams * Kobe Bryant * Carmelo Anthony * Ben Gordon * Joe Johnson * Kevin Martin * Tim Duncan * Kyle Lowry * Thad Young * Amare Stoudemire * Dwight Howard * Josh Smith * Brandon Roy * LaMarcus Aldridge * Rudy Gay * Al Horford * Brandan Wright * Craig Smith * Renaldo Balkman * Wilson Chandler

2008-09 Favorite Rookies: Jerryd Bayless (POR), Roy Hibbert (IND), Greg Oden (POR), Chris Douglas-Roberts (NJN), Joe Alexander (MIL), Patrick Ewing, Jr. (NYK)

College Basketball: "Where 7-Foot Bigs Foul Out Happen"

Playmaker0017

Because Zach Randolph hasn't proven he can win either. He's had a much more stable environment with much more talented players and still missed the playoffs.

When you say things like this - I have to wonder how much organized sports you've actually participated in on a decent level.

Unless it is a PG or a statistical schlub starter, there is no way to fault a single player for losses. I don't care how many they've been a part of.

Again - how many Vancouver Grizzlies went on to success?

Not a chance. He'll be a 9MM guy.

Play.

HKF

Mike Bibby went on to success, most of the others got hurt in Reeves and Dickerson.

Yes, I played organized hoops (although, I'm not sure, what this has to do with what we're discussing) and Abdur-Rahim has been paid like a superstar for a few years now, but he doesn't deliver like one. That Atlanta team with Terry, Theo and Big Dog, was supposed to be a playoff team, but they stunk.

Oh it's not Reef's fault though right, cause he's getting his numbers. The captain goes down with the ship. The guy has never played on a winner in 8 years. He's not going to be one, if he gets traded to the Nets this year either. Although, he is paid 14.6 million, so you would think he could make them a winner, no of course not.

I would rather hitch my wagon to Randolph rather than Abdur-Rahim, I tell you that much. If he was so good and helped a team so much, people wouldn't be always trying to deal him.

Think Memphis wants Reef back for Gasol, or Atlanta wants him back, and now Portland will ship him out.

Your friendship with him has clouded your judgment in regards to his value. His value is great, in a fantasy league.

Also what team will pay him 9 million dollars a year, after proving for going on 9 years, that he is nothing more than a 3rd option at best. He's Juwan Howard all over again.

__________________
My favorite NBA players: Deron Williams * Kobe Bryant * Carmelo Anthony * Ben Gordon * Joe Johnson * Kevin Martin * Tim Duncan * Kyle Lowry * Thad Young * Amare Stoudemire * Dwight Howard * Josh Smith * Brandon Roy * LaMarcus Aldridge * Rudy Gay * Al Horford * Brandan Wright * Craig Smith * Renaldo Balkman * Wilson Chandler

2008-09 Favorite Rookies: Jerryd Bayless (POR), Roy Hibbert (IND), Greg Oden (POR), Chris Douglas-Roberts (NJN), Joe Alexander (MIL), Patrick Ewing, Jr. (NYK)

College Basketball: "Where 7-Foot Bigs Foul Out Happen"

Playmaker0017

Reeves never got hurt. Nor was he ever that good.

And Bibby - yeah, Bibby had it rough. He only went to the most talented team in the league. Bibby is pretty much is an average PG on a spectacular team. He still only gets 4-6 assists a game on a team of dead-eye shooters.


Because being on a team makes you realize how it is a TEAM and not a single man competition. Jordan himself couldn't have willed the Grizzlies to victory.

Big Dog was one of the biggest reasons for this. Heck, talk to Theo about it. Since then, Big Dog has been relegated to the bench on scrub teams. People have realized he's a ball hog who refuses to pass and turns it over at a record pace.

But why? Jason Terry isn't a PG. Everyone wants him to be ... but he isn't. Heck, the Mavs have put him on the bench in favor of a rookie PG. That's awful.

Then take a decent look at their bench.

Theo and Reef were the only players on that team.

Yeah, I'm sure I wasn't the only one that predicted this team wouldn't go very far.

On two completely mismanaged teams. Yeah, it's his fault that the Grizz signed Big Country to a HUGE contract and he fattened up in the off-season. That strapped them financially. It's Reef's fault they drafted Steve Francis (who promised that he would NOT play in Vancouver) instead of Lamar Odom (who promised he would). It's Reef's fault that the year they could have had the number one pick in the draft (Tim Duncan) the NBA had rules in place that forced them to pick second.

Then in Atlanta, I guess it is Reef's fault that they had a PG who couldn't run the point for a HS team. They had a ball hog at the 3. That they had a rookie head coach - twice.

Wow. Traded twice. Whoo-hoo! I guess Jason Kidd sucks too.

Go ahead. Keep parroting the junk you read in ESPN The Mag or Inside Hoops or whatever unoriginal journalisitc publication you choose to read.

Play.

HKF

Look, you obviously hang at the sac of your God Shareef, but sorry to say, he is paid like a superstar and he doesn't play like one. If you can't see that, then you are too blinded in your man crush for him.

The guy is not that good and you're hyping him up, like he is some perennial all-star. The guy is an above average starter who gets points, so he is a fantasy sports dream.

This off-season Portland dangled him in front of everyone, yet no one wants him, except the Nets (for nothing more than an expiring contract). What does that tell you about him? Juwan Howard Part Deux.

You're not a NBA fan, you're a Reef fan. Well that's terrific. Soon enough, he will be gone from the league and so will you.

And I don't buy basketball mags. I've been watching college and pro games religiously since 88. There's not much I don't know about the game.

__________________
My favorite NBA players: Deron Williams * Kobe Bryant * Carmelo Anthony * Ben Gordon * Joe Johnson * Kevin Martin * Tim Duncan * Kyle Lowry * Thad Young * Amare Stoudemire * Dwight Howard * Josh Smith * Brandon Roy * LaMarcus Aldridge * Rudy Gay * Al Horford * Brandan Wright * Craig Smith * Renaldo Balkman * Wilson Chandler

2008-09 Favorite Rookies: Jerryd Bayless (POR), Roy Hibbert (IND), Greg Oden (POR), Chris Douglas-Roberts (NJN), Joe Alexander (MIL), Patrick Ewing, Jr. (NYK)

College Basketball: "Where 7-Foot Bigs Foul Out Happen"