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**Dan** · 03-12-2006, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARIS61

I am somewhat hesitant to ask but here goes...

Why on earth wouldn't you throw it out? What else do you do with fart-slimed bathwater?

continue washing the baby till it's clean?

**barfo** · 03-12-2006, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARIS61

I am somewhat hesitant to ask but here goes...

Why on earth wouldn't you throw it out? What else do you do with fart-slimed bathwater?

Package it in tiny little bottles, give it a pretentious name like "Eau de Cherub", and sell it for $100/oz.

barfo

**barfo** · 03-12-2006, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEER&BASKETBALL

If the Trail Blazers leave, not only would our gov. lose the $millions$ from our players taxes etc, but they would also lose the tax dollars that opposing players pay when they play here. Not sure if all of you are aware of the fact that opposing teams players pay an income tax to each city/state they play in.

That is an interesting thing. I guess not many NBA players file their own taxes, since it would involve filing in many states, and two countries. Not that they can't afford professional tax help. But for the guys at the bottom end of the salary scale, I'll bet they at least notice the tax costs.

I guess there is a benefit to being a Sonic - no state tax on home game income, since WA doesn't have state income tax?

barfo

**ABM** · 03-12-2006, 05:30 PM

Interesting perspective from bigpokerdog over yonder O-Live Forum way...

Quote:

In reading all of the opinions and views concerning Paul Allen and the Rose Garden I think we need to look at what's best for us and for the city. Paul Allen has asked for a public and private partnership but he remains vague on how much money wants, where the money will go and what exactly do we gain from taxpayers assistance. Now I am not in favor of handing over our tax dollars to pay for Paul Allen's past, present and future mistakes concerning the running of the Portland Trail Blazers. But I think that the current situation/mess does need to be fixed if the Trail Blazers are to survive here in Portland. Now there is one party here that has more power and money then Paul Allen. That is us, the citizens of Portland Oregon. What I purpose is this, we put on the ballot of the soonest election possible a bond measure to purchase the Rose Garden. The city of Portland buying the Rose Garden makes sense. Remember when Paul Allen purchased the Trail Blazers he didn't buy the Memorial Coliseum also. The Blazers ran just fine with us owning the Coliseum and the Blazers paying us rent to play there. By taking the insurance companies that own the Rose Garden out of the picture we can then renegotiate the current lease making it more fair for Paul Allen while getting a valuable asset for our tax dollars instead of subsidizing the loses of the Trail Blazers. Global Spectrum has turned the Rose Garden into the best run facility of it's size in the country. Holding more non basketball events there any other similar sized facility in the country. This is not a black hole of cash that some would think. I don't like being held hostage by a billionaire owner who is threatening to move or sell the team. As fans and citizens it's up to us to put us in the best position possible concerning the future of professional sports in this city. Remember we can always sell the Rose Garden down the road but this way we have more say, more control and more power in this mess. Now I'm sure this is not the Public/Private partnership that Paul Allen envisioned but I would rather put my tax dollars into real estate then into sports teams subsidies.

MARIS61 · 03-12-2006, 09:10 PM

Excellent idea but I doubt Allen would have any interest in it. He is clearly looking for more than a better lease deal. He is looking for an excuse to claim bankruptcy of the team as he did with the Arena. He wants out of Portland with a team and money in his pocket.

**crandc** · 03-13-2006, 07:10 AM

The Q & A was a good start but no more than that. He did clarify the difference between spending money and simply losing money. But IMO actions still speak louder than words. He talked about watching the young players develop yada yada. So where is he? I remember a time when he was at EVERY game. He might miss maybe 1 or 2 a year, if that. I know he has other interests but in the past they did not keep him from attending Blazers games. In fact he just brought his other interests to the games with him.
Fans are aware that he went from being a fixture to a no-show. If he wants our support he has to show his. How can he talk about being patient watching players develop and ask us to support the team when he is not there?

**barfo** · 03-13-2006, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crandc

The Q & A was a good start but no more than that. He did clarify the difference between spending money and simply losing money. But IMO actions still speak louder than words. He talked about watching the young players develop yada yada. So where is he? I remember a time when he was at EVERY game. He might miss maybe 1 or 2 a year, if that. I know he has other interests but in the past they did not keep him from attending Blazers games. In fact he just brought his other interests to the games with him.
Fans are aware that he went from being a fixture to a no-show. If he wants our support he has to show his. How can he talk about being patient watching players develop and ask us to support the team when he is not there?

I think there could be several good reasons.

1) As long as the team is perceived as a rich man's plaything, he'll continue to get screwed in every deal. Not attending raises the question of whether he's lost interest, which may improve his negotiating position.

2) He may not feel comfortable coming to games given that a large number of people seem to feel he's either evil or moronic or both.

3) He is prepared for, or is trying to prepare himself for, selling the team.

4) He doesn't enjoy watching his team lose.

He might also be asking the reverse question: "How can you talk about me not supporting the team when you can't be bothered to buy even $10 tickets?" (obviously, not meaning you crandc, but rather Portland area basketball fans).

barfo

**crandc** · 03-13-2006, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barfo

I think there could be several good reasons.

1) As long as the team is perceived as a rich man's plaything, he'll continue to get screwed in every deal. Not attending raises the question of whether he's lost interest, which may improve his negotiating position.

2) He may not feel comfortable coming to games given that a large number of people seem to feel he's either evil or moronic or both.

3) He is prepared for, or is trying to prepare himself for, selling the team.

4) He doesn't enjoy watching his team lose.

He might also be asking the reverse question: "How can you talk about me not supporting the team when you can't be bothered to buy even $10 tickets?" (obviously, not meaning you crandc, but rather Portland area basketball fans).

barfo

Don't quite agree. I think showing a lack of interest weakens his negotiating position, just my opinion. And I recall how much fans liked him at games. He cheered, clapped, jumped up & down, waved his arms, yelled at referees. For those few hours he was "just like us", a fan. Not showing up is going to lose him whatever liking fans may still have. I am afraid 3 may be correct. None of us like watching the team lose, but he can still show up to give support to their effort since he wants us to. And as for him saying why should he support the team when the local fans don't, sorry, but he's head man. If your boss drifts in hours late every day and spends the day goofing around, others may follow the example, then he/she asks you why should I work hard when you aren't? But the person on top should set the example.

**barfo** · 03-13-2006, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crandc

Don't quite agree. I think showing a lack of interest weakens his negotiating position, just my opinion.

If you go to buy anything where the price is negotiable and act excited about getting it, you'll pay a higher price. If, on the other hand, you are able to convince the salesperson that you aren't that desperate to have the item, that you might walk away, then you'll get a better price.

Quote:

And as for him saying why should he support the team when the local fans don't, sorry, but he's head man. If your boss drifts in hours late every day and spends the day goofing around, others may follow the example, then he/she asks you why should I work hard when you aren't? But the person on top should set the example.

He spent several years setting the example, but the example hasn't been followed the last few years. He'd be pretty silly to believe now that if he showed up, attendance would increase.

barfo

**Dan** · 03-13-2006, 08:45 AM

Does anyone know how many owners of NBA teams go to every game?

and how many fans have such huge paranoia complexes?

**crandc** · 03-13-2006, 09:02 AM

I know most owners don't go to every game, but when an owner who has stopped it does send a message. To the players and to the fans and to the community. I don't think Paul Allen going to games will magically increase attendance, but it's hard to believe he is interested when he stops showing up.

**Dan** · 03-13-2006, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crandc

I know most owners don't go to every game, but when an owner who has stopped it does send a message. To the players and to the fans and to the community. I don't think Paul Allen going to games will magically increase attendance, but it's hard to believe he is interested when he stops showing up.

he hasn't been going to games regualrly for the last about 4 years. This year I don't blame him. He's losing money hand over fist, the team sucks, and there's enough fans who have the cognitive skills of a 3rd grader who think them yelling things at him will make a difference.

If he's selling, he's going about it the wrong way.

Utherhimo · 03-13-2006, 09:55 AM

he cant i just hope stern doesnt allow the team to move

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