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Ed O · 03-29-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa1177

Please explain how we are going to accomplish this with a player who rarely gives 100% on the floor let alone 80%.

Effort in terms of percentages is meaningless to me.

He could be giving 1%. If he's the best option we have at the position then he should be playing that position.

I'm all in favor of getting a better SF than Miles... heck, I want us to upgrade every single position and every single player on the roster. But getting rid of Miles--even if we could get rid of his salary without taking any back--won't bring that player, and in the mean time the team is much better off (a) playing him trying to win games, and (b) holding out hope that something will turn on in his head and he'll become the player so many of you blame him for not being.

Ed O.

Blazer Ringbearer · 03-29-2006, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa1177

Money can be better spent...pure and simple logic.

Too simple.

If you trade your good players (expensive or no) away for nothing you have no more good players. If you want good players then, how are you going to get them?

You hope your young guys get good, hope you get lucky in the draft and try to attract free agents (if you have cap room). Getting good free agents is historically very hard to do for small market teams and even harder for the worst teams in the league.

Your alternative is to shop your good players and if their value is low, go into next season with them and actually try to move them if/when they start producing at a higher level. Zach should hopefully have decent value this offseason, but Miles likely won't.

Another alternative is to call Isiah Thomas.

Samuel · 03-29-2006, 03:17 PM

Theo.

Why? Let's take a look at Darius and Zach, first. A player hits his prime from 26-28. Their skills are honed at that point, their defense better, and their shooting percentages higher. They don't make the same mistakes as young guys do.

Zach and Darius, for their high school class (1981-82), are still pretty good.

Here's a general ranking of them based solely on this season.

Dwayne Wade
Zach Randolph
Caron Butler
Jameer Nelson
Chris Kaman
DeShawn Stevenson
Boris Diaw
Darius Miles
Chris Wilcox
Luke Ridnour
Mickaël Pietrus
Gerald Wallace
Mike Sweetney
Eddie Griffin
Jarvis Hayes
Jared Jeffries
Marcus Banks
Marcus Taylor
Qyntel Woods
Royal Ivey
Luke Jackson
Justin Reed
David Young
Pape Sow

You could go up or down with a lot of those guys, but on the whole, Zach and Darius are top-10 players for their age. They still have some 'upside', and Theo doesn't. That's why he should be the first to go (plus, he frees up space for Przybilla or another big guy).

JFizzleRaider · 03-29-2006, 03:54 PM

Kick off Randolph

**SheedSoNasty** · 03-29-2006, 03:59 PM

Definitely Theo for reasons already stated.

zagsfan20 · 03-29-2006, 04:49 PM

Darius Miles,

The guy is a loser, he has done everything but tell people that he doesn't care about basketball....(and he might of even done that)....

He's a bigger cancer to this team, even bigger than Bonzi, Rasheed, Ruben and all the other idiots we've had play for us, because atleast those other players cared to win....Darius doesn't give two hoots whether or not we win or lose and he has got into arguments with every coach he's ever had....

To me its obvious who should be kicked off the team, its Darius, more because of addition by subtraction more than anything else...

Ed O · 03-29-2006, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zagsfan20

To me its obvious who should be kicked off the team, its Darius, more because of addition by subtraction more than anything else...

I said it before the bloodbath that's led to our current piece of crap team, and I'll say it again. Except in extreme circumstances, addition by subtraction is a myth.

The idea that we can get rid of our best players and continue to be successful is one that has clearly been proven false by the current Blazers... I am surprised that people still think that it makes sense.

Ed O.

zagsfan20 · 03-29-2006, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed O

I said it before the bloodbath that's led to our current piece of crap team, and I'll say it again. Except in extreme circumstances, addition by subtraction is a myth.

The idea that we can get rid of our best players and continue to be successful is one that has clearly been proven false by the current Blazers... I am surprised that people still think that it makes sense.

Ed O.

I don't think we could possibly be any worse and its not like Darius when healthy has made any kind of difference in the wins or losses for this team....

southnc · 03-29-2006, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed O

I said it before the bloodbath that's led to our current piece of crap team, and I'll say it again. Except in extreme circumstances, addition by subtraction is a myth.

The idea that we can get rid of our best players and continue to be successful is one that has clearly been proven false by the current Blazers... I am surprised that people still think that it makes sense.

Ed O.

We traded Patterson because he was a "cancer." Yet, his energy, solid defense, and ability to get points in the paint were more crucial than most realize. I'm not saying it was wrong to part with him, but his departure has deflated this team's ability to fight back and win games.

**Minstrel** · 03-29-2006, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zagsfan20

I don't think we could possibly be any worse and its not like Darius when healthy has made any kind of difference in the wins or losses for this team....

The Blazers can get worse, but that's not really the point. Losing talent will offset other gains in talent, making it harder to improve.

It's almost never a good idea to get rid of talent, unless you're pretty sure that it's going to directly lead to or enable acquisition of better talent. Ditching Miles wouldn't really qualify, any more than dealing Rasheed Wallace or Bonzi Wells for lesser talent did.

Stepping Razor · 03-29-2006, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed O

I said it before the bloodbath that's led to our current piece of crap team, and I'll say it again. Except in extreme circumstances, addition by subtraction is a myth.

The idea that we can get rid of our best players and continue to be successful is one that has clearly been proven false by the current Blazers... I am surprised that people still think that it makes sense.

Ed O.

Ed, I have to admit that I used to be in the "addition-by-subtraction" camp, but harsh experience has led me around to your position. As happy as I was to get rid of guys like Damon and DA... it didn't help things to replace them with even worse players like Blake and Dixon.

That said, I still don't think it would be a bad idea to look to move guys like Theo and Miles who seem to have checked out on the team. However, we damn well better get something good back for them!

In that vein, I will shamelessly quote my own proposal from the other thread:

Miles and Blake to Golden State
Pietrus and Fisher to Portland

Stepping Razor

e_blazer1 · 03-29-2006, 07:25 PM

While I buy the addition by subtraction theory to some extent with respect to Darius, I much prefer addition by addition of talent. At this point, I think you have to look at which combination of players and/or picks will bring us back more talent (and especially experienced talent) so that the team is actually better after the trade than it was before. In my view, any of our three big contracts (Theo, Darius, or Zach) is a candidate for being a part of a blockbuster deal this summer. They aren't going to get the job done by themselves, but with the inclusion of a top-3 pick and maybe another good young prospect, it may be possible to bring back a true all-star this summer. I don't have any specific ideas yet because it's pretty early and there aren't too many rumblings about moves other teams may want to make, but I have to think that Nash and Pritchard are looking hard to find a big deal that will bring some excitement and a better vibe to the team by next fall.

Jeez, I hope so.

deanwoof · 03-29-2006, 10:22 PM

I have to get rid of Darius Miles. NOW.

Someone said there is a correlation between his injury and his "suckiness", for lack of better words. Well, yes that is true. But what if because of this surgery, he will never be the same Darius Miles? Wouldn't you want to get rid of this player ASAP since he's here for another 5-6 years and giving you a half-assed performance every single time he's out on the floor? There are players on the roster that need playing time (i.e. Travis Outlaw, Victor Kryhapa, Martell Webster) that essentially play the same position. Their talent level may not be on the same level now, but theirs can only go up (hopefully), while Miles' is obviously on the way down.

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