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03-30-2006, 12:08 PM
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#61 (permalink)
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All-Star
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: BlazerMania
Age: 22
Posts: 8,618
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Re: If you could kick a player off the team...
Miles was injured on December 5th through February 12th....
prior to his injury we were 5-11...
after his injury...
were 12-20
In the games he's played since coming back (not counting the one's he missed) we are 3-16...
__________________
"I condemn remarks that are, in any way, viewed as anti-anything".
- John McCain
Rodney Stuckey is the future of the league.
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03-30-2006, 12:32 PM
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#62 (permalink)
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Banned member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Age: 82
Posts: 28,436
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Re: If you could kick a player off the team...
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Originally Posted by Ed O
I don't necessarily agree. He's only 24 years old. Players improve at age 24 all the time. It might not be probable that he'll change, given his experience and track record in the NBA, but saying that he simply isn't going to change is way, way too hasty in my opinion.
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who are these players, who after 6 years in the league and given ample chances, improved? Despite showing no real want to?
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But even if he doesn't change: so what? He's still a pretty good player. Better than any other options we have at this point by a fair margin.
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Not sure if its a "fair margin". Whats so great about miles, honestly?
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Do you have any evidence of that? I'd love to see an example or examples of where a player has refused to re-sign because of chemistry.
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Joel basically said he didn't want to re-sign because players gave up. Giving up isn't exactly signs of great chemistry, is it?
Oh I know, it's Nash's fault, and we shouldn't blame the players..
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Joel is frustrated, but I would bet almost anything he's more frustrated by getting his teeth kicked in every night than he is by "chemistry" issues independent of losing.
Telfair said that the coach's lack of consistency is detrimental to the team. Zach has said that the GM's inability to get good players is detrimental to the team.
Bad teams, entirely understandably, point fingers. Miles and Zach are natural targets because of their contracts and their talent. It doesn't follow that everyone who gets blamed for the team's struggles should be gotten rid of.
Ed O.
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Miles is a natural target because he's not really that good and he doesn't have a history of playing hard, being coachable, or actually giving a damn.
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03-30-2006, 01:27 PM
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#63 (permalink)
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Legend
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 16,001
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Re: If you could kick a player off the team...
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Originally Posted by SMiLE
who are these players, who after 6 years in the league and given ample chances, improved? Despite showing no real want to?
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What player at age 24 after 6 years in the NBA has failed to improve?
There just isn't a large population set.
But as far as 24 year-olds generally, there have been a ton of players that improved dramatically at that age.
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Not sure if its a "fair margin". Whats so great about miles, honestly?
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What do you mean "what's so great"? He's better than any other small forward on the roster. Easily.
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Joel basically said he didn't want to re-sign because players gave up. Giving up isn't exactly signs of great chemistry, is it?
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Chemistry is something that people like you make up to explain things.
The team is giving up because it's a horrible team that's losing. Anyone who is surprised that this team is losing and some of the players are giving up didn't have a very firm grasp on how NBA seasons unfold for bad teams.
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Miles is a natural target because he's not really that good and he doesn't have a history of playing hard, being coachable, or actually giving a damn.
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I sometimes wish that I were as comfortable judging people as you appear to be, Hap. It would make life a lot simpler.
Ed O.
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03-30-2006, 01:32 PM
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#64 (permalink)
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Banned member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Age: 82
Posts: 28,436
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Re: If you could kick a player off the team...
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Originally Posted by Ed O
I sometimes wish that I were as comfortable judging people as you appear to be, Hap. It would make life a lot simpler.
Ed O.
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sometimes I wish that I were as uncaring and unemotional about how the team gets wins (as long as it gets wins) when it comes to the trailblazers as you. It would make life a lot simpler.
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03-30-2006, 01:32 PM
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#65 (permalink)
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All-Star
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: BlazerMania
Age: 22
Posts: 8,618
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Re: If you could kick a player off the team...
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Originally Posted by Ed O
What player at age 24 after 6 years in the NBA has failed to improve?
There just isn't a large population set.
But as far as 24 year-olds generally, there have been a ton of players that improved dramatically at that age.
What do you mean "what's so great"? He's better than any other small forward on the roster. Easily.
Chemistry is something that people like you make up to explain things.
The team is giving up because it's a horrible team that's losing. Anyone who is surprised that this team is losing and some of the players are giving up didn't have a very firm grasp on how NBA seasons unfold for bad teams.
I sometimes wish that I were as comfortable judging people as you appear to be, Hap. It would make life a lot simpler.
Ed O.
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How many of those players played for 3 different teams and were about to go onto their fourth for the same reason...
and if you think Hap is the only person who thinks that Miles is a lazy slacker who doesn't give a rats *** than you're poorly mistaken...
I work the games and I'm often right by the Blazers bench and you should hear the crap that gets thrown his way by fans (even season ticket holders) and the joke that he has become by many fans....Sure there is a lot of little kids who still clamor to his popularity of being a "cool dunker", but thats where it ends...The guy doesn't care and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out...
__________________
"I condemn remarks that are, in any way, viewed as anti-anything".
- John McCain
Rodney Stuckey is the future of the league.
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03-30-2006, 01:46 PM
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#66 (permalink)
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Legend
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 16,001
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Re: If you could kick a player off the team...
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Originally Posted by zagsfan20
How many of those players played for 3 different teams and were about to go onto their fourth for the same reason...
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What does this have to do with Miles? He wasn't traded by the Clippers because of a lack of anything. He was traded by the Clippers because they wanted to compete and they were able to get Andre Miller for him.
I appreciate your continued willingness to alter facts to fit your perspective, but I don't think it serves you well in this case.
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and if you think Hap is the only person who thinks that Miles is a lazy slacker who doesn't give a rats *** than you're poorly mistaken...
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Why would I think that? Did I give any indication that I thought Hap was singular--or even in the minority?
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I work the games and I'm often right by the Blazers bench and you should hear the crap that gets thrown his way by fans (even season ticket holders) and the joke that he has become by many fans....Sure there is a lot of little kids who still clamor to his popularity of being a "cool dunker", but thats where it ends...The guy doesn't care and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out...
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Well, if fans are complaining, then it MUST be true. Because most fans that are willing to throw crap the way of players are looking at the big picture and what's best for the team long-term, rather than just responding emotionally to what they think they're seeing on the court.
Just like I don't give a crap about which players little kids think are good dunkers, I don't care about the courtside opionion of fans that blame the lion's share of the train wreck that this season has become on Darius Miles.
Ed O.
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03-30-2006, 01:57 PM
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#67 (permalink)
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All-Star
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: BlazerMania
Age: 22
Posts: 8,618
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Re: If you could kick a player off the team...
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What does this have to do with Miles? He wasn't traded by the Clippers because of a lack of anything. He was traded by the Clippers because they wanted to compete and they were able to get Andre Miller for him.
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What proof can you provide that was the reason that they traded Miles?...and its not like the Clippers or the Cavs were competing for playoffs spots at the time of the trade...Don't you think that if Miles wasn't a cancer that he would be worth hanging onto?... Truth is Alvin Gentry didn't get along with him, nor did Paul Silas, which lead to him being traded to Portland for a mediocre Jeff McInnis...
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I appreciate your continued willingness to alter facts to fit your perspective, but I don't think it serves you well in this case.
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right back at ya...
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Well, if fans are complaining, then it MUST be true. Because most fans that are willing to throw crap the way of players are looking at the big picture and what's best for the team long-term, rather than just responding emotionally to what they think they're seeing on the court.
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Just like I don't give a crap about which players little kids think are good dunkers, I don't care about the courtside opionion of fans that blame the lion's share of the train wreck that this season has become on Darius Miles.
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Well, I should have known, your opinion is the only fans opinion that matters...
__________________
"I condemn remarks that are, in any way, viewed as anti-anything".
- John McCain
Rodney Stuckey is the future of the league.
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03-30-2006, 02:05 PM
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#68 (permalink)
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Top Of The Pops
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: I like American music...do you like American music? I like American music...baby....
Posts: 27,458
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Re: If you could kick a player off the team...
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Originally Posted by SMiLE
sometimes I wish that I were as uncaring and unemotional about how the team gets wins (as long as it gets wins) when it comes to the trailblazers as you. It would make life a lot simpler.
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It just takes realizing that they don't want to be your friends and there's no reason why you would want them as your friends over anyone else on Earth. So who cares who they are as people? That's of value to their friends, family and acquaintances. We watch them play basketball...that's our relationship to them. Do you evaluate investment bankers by how much you'd enjoy grabbing a beer with them, or your car mechanic by how much he loves his wife? Is it uncaring and unemotional to value them, in a professional setting, by how well they do their job? I don't think so.
Some people want to feel like they're a part of the team, and they have bonds with the players. But that's not true of everyone. As a kid, I was that way...now I am not. So it's also possible to change what sort of fan you are.
__________________
You'll never live like common people
You'll never do what common people do
You'll never fail like common people
You'll never watch your life slide out of view
And dance and drink and screw
Because there's nothing else to do.
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03-30-2006, 02:11 PM
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#69 (permalink)
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Legend
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 16,001
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Re: If you could kick a player off the team...
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Originally Posted by zagsfan20
What proof can you provide that was the reason that they traded Miles?
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Um. Common sense. Press reports at the time. What kind of proof do you want?
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...and its not like the Clippers or the Cavs were competing for playoffs spots at the time of the trade...
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Oh, really? Thanks for that obvious and entirely superfluous tidbit.
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Don't you think that if Miles wasn't a cancer that he would be worth hanging onto?...
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No. The Clippers had Lamar Odom and Elton Brand (so the forward spots were full) and they needed a PG. They almost certainly really liked Miles's potential but it simply made sense to move him.
I fail to see the logic in a "well if they traded him, they must not have liked him" argument. It makes no sense.
Actually, it's entirely consistent with the whole "he's a cancer!!!!" mindset. But still it makes no sense.
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Truth is Alvin Gentry didn't get along with him,
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Do you have a link for this "truth"?
You say this sort of thing every time I catch you making stuff up.
PLEASE find where I've made a mistake or a misrepresentation of fact and not acknowledged it. PLEASE. PLEASE. PLEASE. I'm sure that I do it occasionally, but I'd love to be called on it when it happens rather than at some later time. We don't all have your photographic memory.
Or just stop the accusation, I suppose.
Ed O.
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03-30-2006, 02:17 PM
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#70 (permalink)
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Shadow of Everest
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Portland
Age: 31
Posts: 7,823
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Re: If you could kick a player off the team...
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Originally Posted by Ed O
What player at age 24 after 6 years in the NBA has failed to improve?
There just isn't a large population set.
But as far as 24 year-olds generally, there have been a ton of players that improved dramatically at that age.
What do you mean "what's so great"? He's better than any other small forward on the roster. Easily.
Chemistry is something that people like you make up to explain things.
The team is giving up because it's a horrible team that's losing. Anyone who is surprised that this team is losing and some of the players are giving up didn't have a very firm grasp on how NBA seasons unfold for bad teams.
I sometimes wish that I were as comfortable judging people as you appear to be, Hap. It would make life a lot simpler.
Ed O.
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Miles averages 15pt, 4.5rbds, 2asts in 33.3 minutes
Outlaw averages 5.5pt, 2.5rbds, 1ast in 16 minutes.
You give Outlaw the starting job and the opportunity to play 30+ minutes a game and the large amount of touches Miles normally gets and he'll put up equal or better numbers then Miles. So Miles is not "easily" better then any other SF on the team.
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03-30-2006, 02:29 PM
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#71 (permalink)
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All-Star
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: BlazerMania
Age: 22
Posts: 8,618
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Re: If you could kick a player off the team...
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Um. Common sense. Press reports at the time. What kind of proof do you want?
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Common sense is the best that you can come up with?
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No. The Clippers had Lamar Odom and Elton Brand (so the forward spots were full) and they needed a PG. They almost certainly really liked Miles's potential but it simply made sense to move him.
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Of course, so the head case goes on to another team, reasonable logic...
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Do you have a link for this "truth"?
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Common sense.
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You say this sort of thing every time I catch you making stuff up.
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What did you catch me making up?...
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Or just stop the accusation, I suppose.
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Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house....
__________________
"I condemn remarks that are, in any way, viewed as anti-anything".
- John McCain
Rodney Stuckey is the future of the league.
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03-30-2006, 02:31 PM
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#72 (permalink)
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Legend
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 16,001
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If you could kick a player off the team...
