Minstrel

How does that show that the Euroleague isn't tougher than college? 99% of college players aren't nearly good enough to play in the NBA either.

All those players you mentioned were college stars. That is, they were all better than the vast majority of college players. And now they're in their prime, which isn't good enough to play in the NBA but better than virtually any college player. Some of those college players will become better than Langdon, Bowdler, etc, as they improve, but almost none of them are better now than former college stars who are now in their prime.

All you've shown is that the Euroleague is clearly inferior to the NBA, which no one disputed. The fact that it has plenty of former college stars only means that it's better than the NCAA, which has a ton of players who aren't capable of making it in any pro league. And even the best players in college are far from their primes.

True of every single prospect that enters the NBA. Do we need to go through the incredibly long list of college stars that failed at the NBA level? This isn't a point that applies to Bargnani any more than anyone else in the draft. "Maybe Morrison will be the guy who breaks through ala Wade & Carter...But you cannot deny that the risk is VERY real that he won't..."

I would say Bargnani is the most "known" quantity. He's the one playing well against the stronger competition. The better the competition a player is playing against, the more secure one can feel in a player's abilities.

Morrison/Gay are as unknown as any college prospect. Will they be the next Grant Hill or the next Trajan Langdon?

__________________
You'll never live like common people
You'll never do what common people do
You'll never fail like common people
You'll never watch your life slide out of view
And dance and drink and screw
Because there's nothing else to do.

italianBBlover

For the records: as I said in my precedent post, Cal Bowdler simply SUCKED here and I still can't understand how he has managed to play in NBA ...

Trajan Langdon is a pretty good SG-SF in Europe, but there are better players than him at the 2-3.
Same with Baston: he's very good, but hes's not the best PF in Europe.

I repeat: there are american players that played in NBA or were very good college players, which in Europe/Italy they were/are almost scrubs or anyway nothing of special; just think about Rusty LaRue, Bowdler, Goldwire, Ansu Sesay, AJ Guyton, Ric Brunson (man ... he was a scrub even in the 2nd division !) ...

__________________
Italians do it better
http://digilander.iol.it/italianbasketball/

B_&_B

I didnt read this entire thread, so this may have already been posted... but rumor from an NBA scout is that Bargnani will be given an award for being the most outstanding young player in the Euro League.

__________________


"People say we are coming, but I almost think it's to the point where we are here," he said. "I think it's no longer coming. We are here now."... Brandon Roy.

mediocre man

How bout this off season?

Randolph, Ratliff, Outlaw, #30, #31 and our pick next year

for

Pierce, Lafrentz

Draft Bargnani

Joel
Bargnani
Pierce/Webster
Webster/Pierce
Telfair

With

Lafrentz
Khryapa
Jack
Skinner

Etal off the bench


Now I know you will all hate this deal because the Blazers actually have to give something of value up for an all star, but I think it's fair

__________________
"SHOW ME THE BUFFET!!!"


Former Blazer Alaa Abdelnaby on being a student athlete at Duke. "The only way I could get 5 A's at Duke was to spell my name"


I'm Mediocre Man, and I approve this message.

B_&_B

I like that deal... Mr. Happy Fat guy with nacho's!

__________________


"People say we are coming, but I almost think it's to the point where we are here," he said. "I think it's no longer coming. We are here now."... Brandon Roy.

Blazer Maven

Great trade. Except Pierce will likely go to the Clips for Maggette and Livingston this offseason, IMHO.

__________________
"Luck is the residue of design" - Branch Rickey

Kmurph

Minstrel -

I don't think Bargnani's modest stats against some former college players who couldn't cut it\make it the NBA...suddenly vaults him above Morrison\Gay for example...

I think the euroleague is as good...if slightly better than college bball in general, but not better to the extent implied in this and other threads...

and I disagree that Bargnani is the more "well known" commodity or that he has a better chance to "break through" than either Morrison\Gay...he has as many or more question marks about him than the college players projected in the top 5 do..

Also, the history of european "can't miss" players has not been good, and IMO if a team is going to take a risk, they would be better served going with either Morrison or Gay...

__________________
Quit the Webster hate

Reep

Oooh, I don't know about that one. Living down here in Clipper land I would be shocked if they traded away Livingston. They have him written in as the cornerstone of the franchise for years to come, and he has the tools to pull that off. Livingston will be a Clipper for a long time. If the Clips are after Pierce, Livingston won't be part of the deal.

Sambonius

I think I was the first on the Bargnani bandwagon months ago, he would be the guy I draft if given the opportunity. His first step is not to be ****ed with and his shot is money. Not only that, but the guy shows that he wants to play defense and can block shots pretty well. Bargnani with our pick. Yais.

Minstrel

I think his good performance against superior competition, along with all his demonstrated skills, vault him above all the other prospects. I don't think he's can't-miss, but the overall package seems like the best.

I think he has fewer. Defense. That's it. Morrison and Gay, at minimum, also have the same question mark. In addition, Morrison lacks athleticism or skills beyond scoring and Gay lacks consistency.

The history of "can't miss" players from Europe is the same as "can't miss" players from college: They usually miss. Almost nobody is a can't-miss. In the last decade, the only real can't-miss out of college that didn't miss was Tim Duncan. The only real can't-miss out of Europe that didn't miss was Dirk Nowitzki. And that's with many more college prospects than European prospects.

No one is calling Bargnani "can't miss." But Morrison and Gay (and Aldridge and Thomas) are also far from that status. Overall, I think Bargnani is a safer pick because he can do a lot of things, has great athleticism, great size and has played against high-quality competition. Those are all the indicators you look for in terms of evaluating upside potential.

__________________
You'll never live like common people
You'll never do what common people do
You'll never fail like common people
You'll never watch your life slide out of view
And dance and drink and screw
Because there's nothing else to do.

Reep

I might add Carmelo to the list of can't miss out of college (but it is debateable) but that still makes a list of two in ten years. Pretty weak. Most of the Euros who have failed were unproven in high level competition too (Tsika and Darko). But Bargnani is more proven against such competition.

Minstrel

I considered Melo, but he was pretty can't-miss out of high school. He chose to get a year of college experience, first, but he would have been a top pick out of high school, too.

And good point about other top European prospects having been unproven against that competition. That's a key difference for Bargnani.

__________________
You'll never live like common people
You'll never do what common people do
You'll never fail like common people
You'll never watch your life slide out of view
And dance and drink and screw
Because there's nothing else to do.

zagsfan20