Dan

yah, because most go to the NBA already.

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Minstrel

It makes a big difference. If a perimeter player defends him on the perimeter, those four inches mean that he can simply shoot over his defender, the way Nowitzki does. If a player with the size to challenge Bargnani's shot defends him out on the perimeter, Bargnani can drive past him.

Morrison can't out-quick a small forward nor can he shoot over him. Bargnani, due to his size and quickness, is a matchup nightmare unless you have an athletic freak like Garnett or McGrady, who have both great size and quickness.

Because the Euroleague is made up of players too old to be prospects. College players are young enough to be expected to improve, and the best ones will make up the NBA (the toughest league in the world). The rest can't match the older, more experienced Euroleague players, who aren't good enough to play in the NBA but are better than college players who haven't yet reached their prime.

Bargnani, however, is young, like a college player, yet is holding his own against these tougher, older players. So he has both the upside of a college prospect and the performance history against a better brand of competition.

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Dan

how do you know he can't shoot over them?

I guess thats why his outside shots got blocked so much in college.
so now it'll take an athletic freak to guard Bargani otherwise it'll be a "matchup nightmare"?

jesus christ, you'd think this kid will come in here and average 25 ppg the way people talk about him.

thats debatable

they're older, and not really good prospects of his age group, and most of them probably wouldn't make a dent in the NBA. So I'd *hope* he plays better against them

__________________
A Buddhist walks up to a hot dog vendor and says "Make me one with everything".

when will the loss of life end?

The world respects the power of our example, not an example of our power.

I'd like to say I made this, but I didn't

Minstrel

The average college player is far smaller and less athletic than the average NBA player. I wouldn't expect his shot to be blocked much in college. I would expect (I don't know for a fact, this is all speculation) that he'll have a lot of shots smothered (that is, he won't even attempt them because he doesn't have the space) in the NBA.

Yes, that's what having a quick, athletic seven-footer with a nice shot gives you.

I think he has that potential, in his prime.

Not really. Most college players aren't pro quality, in any league. College isn't all Adam Morrisons. There are many more Colin Floyds. The Euroleague has a lot of fringe NBA players, who were just below NBA level. They're all also closer to their prime, on average, than college players. Combined, it means that the competition is tougher than the NCAA.

They aren't good prospects due to their age, but they're better players than 99% of college players. So Bargnani is playing well against tougher, better players than any of the college prospects have faced. That's good stuff.

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You'll never live like common people
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You'll never fail like common people
You'll never watch your life slide out of view
And dance and drink and screw
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Dan

while it's said that the players in the european leagues are fringe NBA players, most of them who ARE, are older and not really that good. And I doubt thats as big of a % of the league as it's being implied.

So they're basically on par with the fringe (younger) nba players in college.

and it's not like bargani is putting up #'s against NBA talent, any more than Morrison is.

if he's the "best young" guy in his league, and he's putting up 15 ppg (which irrc, he doesn't) thats not really saying much, EVEN if you buy into the " different game" line.

and can we stop with the 'against high schoolers' stuff? It's not like Morrison ( or gay, or aldrdge, or whoever) is doing their stuff against high schoolers.

__________________
A Buddhist walks up to a hot dog vendor and says "Make me one with everything".

when will the loss of life end?

The world respects the power of our example, not an example of our power.

I'd like to say I made this, but I didn't

ThatBlazerGuy

Its pretty much undebatable that the Euroleague is better than NCAA basketball. For example, take the best team in college basketball and put them up against the best team in the Euroleague and they will get smashed. Examples...

Benetton vs. Toronto Raptors- Raptors win by 3, and Benetton isnt even a great Euroleague team. Anyone think that the Huskies or Gators could play like that against Toronto, I for one dont.

And, are we forgettin the pummelling team USA took? European leagues are easily the 2nd best in the world.

Dan

you put together a team that had a year together (in some cases, years) and the NBA team would smoke any european team.

you put together a team that had very little time to get to know each others games, don't have any cohesiveness, and pit them against teams that have had long periods of time together, they'll probably lose 90% of the time.


comparing how they played against the raptors/nba, is faulty. because there are several hundred college teams. If you took out say...75% of the teams, and only the best of the best could play in college ball, you'd have a different story.

but even IF their league is the '2nd best', the difference between it at the NBA is at such a much wider gap than the gap between them and college.

__________________
A Buddhist walks up to a hot dog vendor and says "Make me one with everything".

when will the loss of life end?

The world respects the power of our example, not an example of our power.

I'd like to say I made this, but I didn't

Minstrel

Possibly, but the fringe NBA players in college are a tiny minority. And they're still far from their prime.

I never said he was playing NBA talent. He's played against better players than Morrison has. Neither has played against NBA talent.

It's saying quite a lot in a league where preference is given to seniority. Bargnani almost surely could put up more points as the first option, but teams in that league don't make 19- and 20-year olds the first option, even if they're talented enough to be.

What "against high schoolers" stuff are you referring to?

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You'll never live like common people
You'll never do what common people do
You'll never fail like common people
You'll never watch your life slide out of view
And dance and drink and screw
Because there's nothing else to do.

Samuel

Hap, just curious as to where you stand here: What pick do you think is appropriate for Bargnani, and why?

Is he a top 10 prospect, or a top 30 project?

You seem to be very argumentative about this. Are you worried that Pritchard and Nash are going to be similarly blown away by Bargnani without looking into it?

The fact is, Prichard/Nash have both seen every second of video that Benneton Treviso has. They've probably spoken to him, and will see him workout against other guys in person.

So why not sip a little kool aid on each one of these draft picks? Heated pragmatism about Bargnani vs. Morrison or Morrison vs. Aldridge or Aldridge vs. Gay won't lead to any sort of conclusion because for every top 5er this year, there's a huge question mark.



Think of yourself as a fan at the basketball buffet table.

Minstrel

I don't know whether that's true, but it's irrelevant to the point I've been making, which is that Bargnani has been playing well against better competition than Morrison. It's not meant to prove Bargnani is better, but it's a point in his favour. The better the competition a prospect faces, the more sense of security there is in his abilities.

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You'll never live like common people
You'll never do what common people do
You'll never fail like common people
You'll never watch your life slide out of view
And dance and drink and screw
Because there's nothing else to do.

zagsfan20

and what makes you think that Morrison's shot is more blockable than any other SF prospect that has entered the draft?...

I watched every single Gonzaga game this year (and the years past) and I've only seen him get blocked 2-3 times...

His high release, long arms (he has 7'0" wing span) and creative ways to get open for his shot is better than a player I've seen in a long time at the college level..

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zagsfan20