yakbladder

Let me put it this way, it's not what you say, it's how you keep saying it.

I agree with you and probably go past you in thinking that there have to be some rules of comba...err I mean discussion. Some people come on here just so that every other asterisked-out word can be directed at someone's personal life rather than the discussion at hand. Other posters, who shall remain nameless, come on here and have less than 20 posts, probably about 2/3 of which are on one subject, and 1/2 of those are new threads.

But saying things like "<first part deleted here>.... Gosh, what a meanie." to Spud's complaint and commentary, while in real life would probably just come across as innocent sarcasm with a chuckle from you while you said it, often times comes across as...well...impolite and dismissive? Not sure of the best word, there.

I guess it's a little different perspective because some of us knew Spud before and understand where they are coming from and while you attempt to treat Spud (or others) like they are just some generic newbie who doesn't know how to post, we know better.

e_blazer1

What he said.

Spud's cool.

__________________
Blazermania is BACK!!!

Spud147

Well I've clearly burned my bridges here so I'm going to be blunt. Apparently nobody has informed you that THIS IS NOT YOUR HOUSE EITHER. Your mistake is assuming right up front that I'm going to be a "total smeg head" (whatever that is). Go back and read my initial posts... was I even remotely impolite? Did I act like I owned the place? As E said, assume people can handle themselves up front and deal with "rule breakers" on an individual basis as they happen.

And I just have to laugh at the "don't try to make a name for yourself right off the bat" thing. Are there people here who are trying to make a name for themselves? You're telling me that people take this forum (and you) so seriously it's important for them to strive for fame on an anonymous message board. That is just sad. Someone who feels that way probably needs a lot more help than your guidelines are going to give them.

I didn't say your initial post was impolite... you came out on the attack without cause (you just assumed all newbies need your mentoring) and you expect the targets of this attack to respond politely... it's ridiculous.

This logic just stuns me. How do you know the newbies you attack weren't going to stay. I have posted on the ESPN board since 1999. I love the Blazers, I love to discuss them with other fans, I've stuck around through thick and thin. The only reason I came over here in the first place was because most of my ESPN buddies had already migrated and I missed them.

Your statement struck me more as ignorant, inflexible, and judgemental not necessarily mean spirited. No, you're not hurting for members but you have no way of knowing what the newbies you drive away could have brought to this board. For all you know those new personalities and opinions could actually make this board even better.

What's really sad is that the posts here are so impressive for the most part. The knowledge and insight some of these posters have blows me away. I would have loved to discuss the Blazers with them... I know I could learn a lot. But in the end, it's both of our losses. A lot of these "newbies" are from the ESPN board and I can tell you that they have a lot to contribute.

What I find really interesting here is that I had 2 rep points before I made that last post... now I have over 30. Clearly a lot of people feel the same way I do.

mgb

What Smile said in his original post is basically what you'll find in a welcome letter to a list so I don't see what the big deal is. Smile can be a bit gruff but if you know him he's just a pain in the butt. Heh. Naw, he's a good guy.

__________________
Michael



"Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling."
-Margaret Lee Runbeck

"Science is built with facts as a house is with stones--but a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house."
-Jules Henri Poincare (1854-1912)

"When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion."
-Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)

Dan

no bridges have been burnt by you. you aren't, at least from my perspective, even in the group of people who this is addressing.

do not assume that because the message was made, that it A: applies to everyone who's new and B: applied to you BECAUSE you're relatively new.
by "make a name" i mean make a reputation among those of us here. as despite what most people think, we want to represent ourselves here in some manner.

actually, as a mod (and CM's and admins too), we have access to a lot more things than regular posters do. Such as IP addresses. Also, we are the ones who get complaints from other posters about things. There are posters here who we know to look out for, and as a whole, what to look out for.

I didn't 'attack' anyone. I reminded people (since actually there's no set list anymore, and it's a major pain to remind new members via PM) that masking of swearing isn't allowed, links to offensive material isn't allowed, and to be respectful and courteous.

if thats an attack..wow.

never said they wouldn't. This isn't about new personalities. This is about people not knowing that there are certain guidelines we try to abide by. Mostly someone posting about 15 posts, all of which repeat the same thing over and over. Not only that, it's likely that said poster is just a former poster who's a bit of a troublesome poster, returning.

so this wasn't about you, or any of the guys who have come over from ESPN recently.

you are reading waaaay too much into what I said. I'm not saying that they shouldn't post here. I said what I said because there were about 2 posters who were going out of their way to post.

that doesn't necessarily mean that. For one, it could mean 1 person with a lot of rep points repped you. You can check your user control panel and see who posted a rep for you.

Since you, for some reason, thought this was about you, I understand why you went off. But it wasn't about you. You've been a poster here (at least as a member) for almost a year now. You didn't just sign up in the last week or so and make a mother load of posts, did you?

Don't try to make this into a bigger issue (especially one that doesn't actually involve, or include you) than it needs to be.

__________________
A Buddhist walks up to a hot dog vendor and says "Make me one with everything".

when will the loss of life end?

The world respects the power of our example, not an example of our power.

I'd like to say I made this, but I didn't

Minstrel

I think there's a lot of arguing at cross-purposes going on.

I don't believe that SMiLE's intent was that older members are "better" or that newer members should remain silent until spoken to.

His point, I believe, is that different forums operate differently...acting in a way that's par for the course in one forum can be considered intensely annoying behaviour in another. So, there's some merit in observing how a forum you're new to takes care of things.

For example, some forums tacitly encourage lots and lots of threads, one for any point that occurs to someone. That actually worked fairly well in some forums I've seen. This forum, however, tends to like related content in a single thread. So if someone come into the forum and creates 10 threads for 10 thoughts they had, that all relate to existing topics, it can be frustrating for the members and the moderators.

Regardless, let me say this: Everyone is equal and free to post whatever they like, within the rules. Some behaviours have recently gotten on the nerves of the members, so you may find yourself at odds with people if you happen to engage in that behaviour. Still, I would suggest participating in as many existing threads as possible and, if you really have something that doesn't apply to existing threads, please make a new one.

There's no "old guard," really. I was one of the earlier members to join and, at this point, I have no idea who joined when except for a few people. I don't more highly esteem anyone's posts based on when they joined, and I doubt anyone esteems my posts purely due to when I joined.

Hopefully, those who's feathers were ruffled will stick around and chat a bit. First impressions are powerful, but longer experience is more telling. Give it a try, a lot of people enjoy this forum. And I think the more opinions, the better.

__________________
You'll never live like common people
You'll never do what common people do
You'll never fail like common people
You'll never watch your life slide out of view
And dance and drink and screw
Because there's nothing else to do.

Minstrel

Your green bar is artificially enlarged. Mine is naturally large and powerful.

__________________
You'll never live like common people
You'll never do what common people do
You'll never fail like common people
You'll never watch your life slide out of view
And dance and drink and screw
Because there's nothing else to do.

Dan

spud, and spud alone, assumed that spud was being treated, reffered to or even thought of AS, a newbie.

Honest to god, I can't think of 2 posts that Spud has made. That's a good sign to me that spud hasn't done posts in the nature of which I am reffering to.

so when someone who thinks i'm calling them a newbie, yells (metaphorically speaking) at me for calling them a newbie, I'm gonna be a little defensive about it, when I didn't *call* them a newbie in the first place.

__________________
A Buddhist walks up to a hot dog vendor and says "Make me one with everything".

when will the loss of life end?

The world respects the power of our example, not an example of our power.

I'd like to say I made this, but I didn't

mgb

Actually the green bar only gets so big, the numbers are what get larger, artificially, naturally, or anything in between.

__________________
Michael



"Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling."
-Margaret Lee Runbeck

"Science is built with facts as a house is with stones--but a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house."
-Jules Henri Poincare (1854-1912)

"When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion."
-Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)

Spud147

Actually, Smile, I knew it wasn't about me. I haven't had any words blocked out, made personal insults or posted links (not even appropriate ones). That is a very reasonable request by the mods because you expect to be treated with respect... just like I do. It was the statements about not posting new topics, sitting back and watching, etc.

My intention was to point out that I had the experience of feeling unwelcome and disrespected when I first posted over here a few months ago. I felt put off by the nasty responses I got when I was just innocently "dipping my toe in". Your message for new members reiterated the condescending and arrogant attitude I ran into as well.

I have no idea what this means or how it relates to my statement you quoted.

Okay is "Made a preemtive strike on the newbies for inappropriate posts they haven't made yet" more comfortable for you than "attack"?

Do you see how you're erroding your own point here? Your reasoning for addressing all "newbies" in the same message was because there are only a few mods. and it's hard to address all the bad behavior on an individual basis. Then you flip and say this only applies to about 2 recent new posters. That doesn't seem like an outrageous number of people to address on an individual basis.

Thank you for the clarification. I will no longer think there is more than one person who agrees with me. In fact, maybe I just gave all those reps to myself... who knows.

You're the one assuming, I know it wasn't specifically about me. I guess I just felt like being the Norma Rae of the bbb.net newbies.

For those of you who aren't old like me... Norma Rae (1979): The story of a woman with the courage to risk everything for what she believes is right.

Could you please give me some guidelines on what issues are appropriate to make bigger and which aren't? I'd hate to break the rules and annoy the people who own this place.

Dan

no comment was made about not posting new topics. Please re-read the initial post. because no where did I say that a new poster can't post new topics.

I said that people should take some time to get to know the flow of the board, and than post. Not just jump in head first. Thats not uncommon usenet ediquette.

altho I don't remember if it was me, if I was one of the ones who came off that way I'm sorry. Generally, unless you go out of your way to stand out (as a newbie) people respond to a post regardless of how long they've posted. So if you say something that someone agrees or disagrees with, they'll respond regardless of your time here.

it's never personal.

I didn't come out on the 'attack' for no cause. We know what to look for in the mentality of posters. If someone is posting 15 posts, and they're mostly the same topic, we have an eye out for that stuff. Thats what I meant.

if telling someone that they're not allowed to mask swear words (which is against the rules), post offensive material (also against the rules) and insult posters (same) is such an issue for you, it seems that you have a problem with the rules, and not so much me making the post.

It's like mgb said. when you sign up for some web based (or email based) discussion groups, you are told to read the TOS. It's not censorship, it's not attacking, it's explaining a simple set of rules that would make life for new posters and "old posters" much easier.