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Oil Can · 08-04-2006, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barfo

ok, that's $50 mil, assuming it doesn't get waived for some reason

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the taxpayers pick it up. So we are still at $50 mil.

Or, it could cost one trillion zillion dollars. Or zero dollars. Lets assume for the moment zero. We are
still at $50 million. Completely affordable for Paul, if that's the direction he's going.

barfo

Yes , quite logical. The NBA will not want money, so they will waive the fee. The taxpayers will gladly accept a $350 million dollar arena project, and Paul Allen will certainyl get out of a very tightly constructed agreement signed in his own hand to pay damages both economic and otherwise.

How could I not have seen your logic before? Thanks! I clearly stand corrected now.

Ed O · 08-04-2006, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oil Can

I forgot that with your 10,000 plus posts that you consider yourself the site sage here. My speculation carries no less weight than yours. You know what? You don't know either. As for making it up...no, this is educated guessing, much like you like to do, I would think you could recognize it.

I'm not claiming to know whether the team will move or not. You seem to be claiming that the team will NOT move.

I'm not claiming to know the outcome of a complicated legal case, in spite of my legal education. You're not only claiming to know the outcome of the complicated legal case, but are putting rather specific dollar amounts to it.

You simply made up the amount and rounded it up to a billion dollars.

I would love to see where I do that kind of speculation.

Ed O.

blakeback · 08-04-2006, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mook

I used to own an old Porsche 914 kinda like this one:

I loved that car more than any vehicle I'll probably ever own. Funky looking and fun to drive. But when it kept breaking down and all my friends kept telling me, "What a piece of junk. Go buy a Honda.", I tended to start thinking about selling that car. No matter how much I loved it.

Too bad it was worth less than a used Honda.

SodaPopinski · 08-04-2006, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barfo

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the taxpayers pick it up. So we are still at $50 mil.

barfo

Oh, that's rich. Yeah, the Washington voters are just clamoring over financing another stadium project. Get real.

-Pop

Ed O · 08-04-2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SodaPopinski

Oh, that's rich. Yeah, the Washington voters are just clamoring over financing another stadium project. Get real.

We might be after we lose the Sonics.

In any event, it's just as likely as any new owner having the spend $350m of their own money on an arena, as the person barfo was responding to did.

Ed O.

SodaPopinski · 08-04-2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed O

We might be after we lose the Sonics.

In any event, it's just as likely as any new owner having the spend $350m of their own money on an arena, as the person barfo was responding to did.

Ed O.

Oil Can's point is still valid, despite the fact he used exaggeration to hammer it home. Paul Allen could have an NBA arena (Rose Garden) for significantly cheaper than he could in Seattle. It would likely cost around $100 million to buy back the RG. Assuming Washington voters decided that yes, they'd like to be generous, you could probably safely assume they'd tolerate financing half of the new arena, or $175 million. So that's $75 million down the hole, plus the $50 million to relocate the team, plus damages he'd have to pay to the city of Portland.

But I guess they never did convince Chicken Little the sky wasn't actually falling.

-Pop

Ed O · 08-04-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SodaPopinski

Oil Can's point is still valid, despite the fact he used exaggeration to hammer it home. Paul Allen could have an NBA arena (Rose Garden) for significantly cheaper than he could in Seattle. It would likely cost around $100 million to buy back the RG. Assuming Washington voters decided that yes, they'd like to be generous, you could probably safely assume they'd tolerate financing half of the new arena, or $175 million. So that's $75 million down the hole, plus the $50 million to relocate the team, plus damages he'd have to pay to the city of Portland.

Again: you're just making up numbers. You're ASSUMING that damages would have to be paid to the city of Portland. You're ASSUMING that Washington wouldn't build a new arena.

Which is fine. It's your opinion. But it doesn't mean that you're right.

There are substantial benefits that Allen would clearly received if he were to relocate, irrespective of how much he spent to do so (and remember he's one of the richest men on the planet, so if he wants to move he'll be able to do so). Specifically, he gets to watch his team in his home town. He gets to place his team in a larger market that would be centrally located between two NBA-level cities that lack NBA teams (Portland and Vancouver, BC). And he wouldn't have to put up with the crap the Oregonian and so many fans have piled on him the last several years.

Quote:

But I guess they never did convince Chicken Little the sky wasn't actually falling.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you.

Ed O.

Public Defender · 08-04-2006, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed O

Again: you're just making up numbers. You're ASSUMING that damages would have to be paid to the city of Portland. You're ASSUMING that Washington wouldn't build a new arena.

Actually, my reading of his post was that he was assuming that the locals would pony up a reasonable sum.

Quote:

There are substantial benefits that Allen would clearly received if he were to relocate, irrespective of how much he spent to do so (and remember he's one of the richest men on the planet, so if he wants to move he'll be able to do so). Specifically, he gets to watch his team in his home town. He gets to place his team in a larger market that would be centrally located between two NBA-level cities that lack NBA teams (Portland and Vancouver, BC). And he wouldn't have to put up with the crap the Oregonian and so many fans have piled on him the last several years.

True, Ed, but there problems. It's hard to imagine that Paul Allen could break the lease with no financial damage and it's hard to believe he could get Sonics' fans to immediately embrace the Blazers. The costs are completely up in the air - but it's hard to imagine a scenario where it's a better short-term financial option to move the team. Maybe I'm just not being imaginative enough...

Honestly, I think Paul Allen now recognizes that he has a stronger bargaining position, with the possible vacancy in Seattle. He can tell the city, PAM, and the gubernatorial candidates in Oregon, for that matter, that he's going to move his team in 2010 if the Sonics move, unless he gets a better deal. It's what head coaches and players do all the time - sniff around another city, see if the grass is greener, and then come back again, all the richer.

SodaPopinski · 08-04-2006, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed O

Again: you're just making up numbers. You're ASSUMING that damages would have to be paid to the city of Portland. You're ASSUMING that Washington wouldn't build a new arena.

Which is fine. It's your opinion. But it doesn't mean that you're right.

Fair enough, although the naysayers are also ASSUMING that damages wouldn't have to be paid to the city of Portland (despite the legal opinions of attorneys for the city of Portland as well as attorneys who don't work for the city of Portland). They're ASSUMING that Washington voters would be OK with spending tax dollars on a new arena (despite polls done by the Puget Sound Business Journal, the Seattle Times, the P-I, KOMO-TV and KING5 that suggest there isn't an appetite to provide public money to rescue the Sonics or to get another team should the Sonics leave). While you are correct, I am assuming a couple things, I believe my assumptions have more substance behind them than paranoia or a "gut feeling."

Quote:

There are substantial benefits that Allen would clearly received if he were to relocate, irrespective of how much he spent to do so (and remember he's one of the richest men on the planet, so if he wants to move he'll be able to do so). Specifically, he gets to watch his team in his home town. He gets to place his team in a larger market that would be centrally located between two NBA-level cities that lack NBA teams (Portland and Vancouver, BC). And he wouldn't have to put up with the crap the Oregonian and so many fans have piled on him the last several years.

You're assuming that Seattle is a better NBA market than Portland is, which I wholeheartedly disagree with. Seattle has the Mariners, the Sonics, the Seahawks, and the Huskies on their sports radar. And quite frequently, the Sonics are #4 on that list. Portland pretty much has the Blazers, and that's it. Sure, college football is big here, but both of those teams are 60 or 90 miles away. Portland has routinely supported the NBA at a feverish pitch until recent developments, and that'll return with the moves this franchise is making and the direction it's going. Seattle will never have that same connection with their NBA team, because they have so many other options.

-Pop

Oil Can · 08-04-2006, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed O

I'm not claiming to know whether the team will move or not. You seem to be claiming that the team will NOT move.

I'm not claiming to know the outcome of a complicated legal case, in spite of my legal education. You're not only claiming to know the outcome of the complicated legal case, but are putting rather specific dollar amounts to it.

You simply made up the amount and rounded it up to a billion dollars.

I would love to see where I do that kind of speculation.

Ed O.

I claim nothing. I speculate. I made up nothing. I have read what I have posted in industry publications and newspapers.No offense, but I will take the sports knowledge of Eggers, Jaynes and Canzano over yours.

So, you do no speculation on this site? You haven't stated how many points player X will average this year? You have not speculated how many wins the Blazers might end up with this year? If you really want me to look, I imagine, somewhere in your vast library of postings, you have speculated.

Very happy for your education. Thanks for the information. I too hold advanced degrees, and you know what? It holds no bearing to this conversation.

At the end of the day, I don't know if they will relocate or not. Just like you. Forgive me if I am mistaken, but this is a sports forum where opinions are shared. I thought that opinion and speculation was inherent logic in these threads if they did not contain links. I will be more careful in the future to clearly indicate an opinion as to not confuse.

yakbladder · 08-04-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oil Can

I claim nothing. I speculate. I made up nothing. I have read what I have posted in industry publications and newspapers.No offense, but I will take the sports knowledge of Eggers, Jaynes and Canzano over yours.

If you're taking the sports knowledge of Jaynes and Canzano, brother you have hit rock bottom.

Oil Can · 08-04-2006, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yakbladder

If you're taking the sports knowledge of Jaynes and Canzano, brother you have hit rock bottom.

An ounce of truth, but they are connected. I know that their opinions can be biased. Stil, they know people that know people.

...besides, I didn't state I took it outright, just over Ed O

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