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08-14-2006, 10:41 AM
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#31 (permalink)
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happy fat guy
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,162
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Re: How do you distribute frontcourt playing time?
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Originally Posted by ebott
I say you send Aldridge down to the D league.
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Huge PR nightmare and embarrasement for the franchise if they do that. The Blazers gave up a player in their rotation last year, who was also a fan favorite in Viktor to get this guy. They also passed on a player that was hugly popular among most fans and that was also ready to play now in Morrison. I think Aldridge will be a very good player regardless. Aldridge should stay in Portland and learn from the people ahead of him like Zach and Jermaine both did.
The logjam is really Joel, Magloire, Zach and Lafrentz. There just aren't enough minutes to go around,
__________________
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Former Blazer Alaa Abdelnaby on being a student athlete at Duke. "The only way I could get 5 A's at Duke was to spell my name"
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08-14-2006, 11:10 AM
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#32 (permalink)
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I only know that I know 0
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 749
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Re: How do you distribute frontcourt playing time?
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Originally Posted by mediocre man
Huge PR nightmare and embarrasement for the franchise if they do that. The Blazers gave up a player in their rotation last year, who was also a fan favorite in Viktor to get this guy. They also passed on a player that was hugly popular among most fans and that was also ready to play now in Morrison. I think Aldridge will be a very good player regardless. Aldridge should stay in Portland and learn from the people ahead of him like Zach and Jermaine both did.
The logjam is really Joel, Magloire, Zach and Lafrentz. There just aren't enough minutes to go around,
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I really don't see a logjam- we have two starters, two reserves and a player to develop. Once Aldridge develops a bit, the player not playing will be La Frentz.
Mags and Joel are the only true centers and they will split the minutes there with the better one starting.
Zach is our starter at the power forward- gets as many minutes as he can play productively. Reserve to Raef and then eventually to Aldridge.
This is really no different a situation than we had at the end of last year. Zach and Joel with Theo, Skinner and Ha as backups.
With a 12-14 man roster, it's impossible not to be 3 deep at some positions.
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08-14-2006, 11:12 AM
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#33 (permalink)
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Star
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,537
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Re: How do you distribute frontcourt playing time?
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Originally Posted by mediocre man
Huge PR nightmare and embarrasement for the franchise if they do that.
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The team showed they didn't care about things that might be PR nightmares when they drafted Aldridge over Morrison. If they think the team is better off playing Joel, Magloire, Zach and Lafrentz then maybe Aldridge is better off going down to the D-league. If everyone is better off then I say do it. They're not going to do or not do anything based on a fear of bad PR.
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08-14-2006, 01:32 PM
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#34 (permalink)
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Supporting Jerk
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 4,137
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Re: How do you distribute frontcourt playing time?
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Originally Posted by mediocre man
Huge PR nightmare and embarrasement for the franchise if they do that.
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I don't think that's even true. But even if it were - who freakin' cares?
If management feels that the best thing for Aldridge long term is for him to knock some people around in the D League, then they should send him down. Us fans don't know a damned thing when it comes to what is really best for the players and the team, especially the casual fans who they are trying to appease. If they're making their decisions based on what they think that those people might want them to do - they're screwed.
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08-14-2006, 01:49 PM
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#35 (permalink)
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Star
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,805
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Re: How do you distribute frontcourt playing time?
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Originally Posted by mediocre man
It's how they have to earn it that concerns me. Martell was working hard, but made dumb mistakes on defense last year so Dixon got more playing time. That was a mistake that put the Blazers further behind in their development as a competitive team.
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Mistake? Did Webster not make large strides in improving his game last year? He was real bad at the start of the season, but by the end he almost looked like a real NBA player. It seems that being handed undeserved playing time isn't the only way to develop a player. The same strategy (making them earn it) seemed to work with Sebastian Telfair last year as well.
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08-14-2006, 03:23 PM
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#36 (permalink)
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happy fat guy
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,162
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Re: How do you distribute frontcourt playing time?
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Originally Posted by dudleysghost
Mistake? Did Webster not make large strides in improving his game last year? He was real bad at the start of the season, but by the end he almost looked like a real NBA player. It seems that being handed undeserved playing time isn't the only way to develop a player. The same strategy (making them earn it) seemed to work with Sebastian Telfair last year as well.
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First of all Martell was not "real bad" at the start of last season, and Dixon was bad the entire season.
As for Telfair, no it didn't.
Telfair started the season as the starting PG, and before hurting his thumb, averaged about the same numbers he did when Nate FINALLY Inserted him back into the starting spot late in the year.
__________________
"SHOW ME THE BUFFET!!!"
Former Blazer Alaa Abdelnaby on being a student athlete at Duke. "The only way I could get 5 A's at Duke was to spell my name"
I'm Mediocre Man, and I approve this message.
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08-14-2006, 04:27 PM
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#37 (permalink)
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Star
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,805
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Re: How do you distribute frontcourt playing time?
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Originally Posted by mediocre man
First of all Martell was not "real bad" at the start of last season, and Dixon was bad the entire season.
As for Telfair, no it didn't.
Telfair started the season as the starting PG, and before hurting his thumb, averaged about the same numbers he did when Nate FINALLY Inserted him back into the starting spot late in the year.
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Here's some numbers for you. I've cherry picked the stats of course, but I think you will agree that they are relevant stats.
Webster FG%-
before all-star break: 33.8%
after all-star break: 43.9%
That's what I mean when I say that he was very bad early in the season, and did show vast improvement. 33% is bad, and +10% is vast.
Telfair-
Before AS break: 25.3 mpg, 9.0 ppg, 36.6% FG
Post AS break: 22.7 min, 10.1 ppg, 43.1% FG
In Bassy's case, his assist and turnover numbers were about the same through the year, but his scoring ability got better. +6.5% FG is significant, no? For whatever reason, he just wasn't able to finish near the rim early on in the season, but he worked on his technique (probably in practice) and improved his game. In both cases, we had guards who shot less than 37% in the first half of the season. That's bad (even worse than Juan Dixon), but under Nate's oppressive PT-denying regimen, they both somehow showed improvement.
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08-14-2006, 06:49 PM
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#38 (permalink)
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happy fat guy
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,162
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Re: How do you distribute frontcourt playing time?
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Originally Posted by dudleysghost
Here's some numbers for you. I've cherry picked the stats of course, but I think you will agree that they are relevant stats.
Webster FG%-
before all-star break: 33.8%
after all-star break: 43.9%
That's what I mean when I say that he was very bad early in the season, and did show vast improvement. 33% is bad, and +10% is vast.
Telfair-
Before AS break: 25.3 mpg, 9.0 ppg, 36.6% FG
Post AS break: 22.7 min, 10.1 ppg, 43.1% FG
In Bassy's case, his assist and turnover numbers were about the same through the year, but his scoring ability got better. +6.5% FG is significant, no? For whatever reason, he just wasn't able to finish near the rim early on in the season, but he worked on his technique (probably in practice) and improved his game. In both cases, we had guards who shot less than 37% in the first half of the season. That's bad (even worse than Juan Dixon), but under Nate's oppressive PT-denying regimen, they both somehow showed improvement.
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Answer this question for if you will. If someone gets consistant playing time are they more or less likely to be better at what they do? Martell's numbers went up simply because he had more opportunities and didn't have to worry about making a mistake and being pulled. It's also hard to do Martell's numbers because he shot so little in the early going.
0-1 is .000%, but 1-2 is .500% and his numbers look like an all star. It's no coincidence that his 2 highest shooting % months came in the two months that he played the most minutes. The other thing I'd like to point out is that he shot 35% from 3 pt range. If I'm not mistaken that's about the same as over 50% from 2 pt range.
__________________
"SHOW ME THE BUFFET!!!"
Former Blazer Alaa Abdelnaby on being a student athlete at Duke. "The only way I could get 5 A's at Duke was to spell my name"
I'm Mediocre Man, and I approve this message.
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08-14-2006, 07:34 PM
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#39 (permalink)
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Star
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,805
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Re: How do you distribute frontcourt playing time?
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Originally Posted by mediocre man
Answer this question for if you will. If someone gets consistant playing time are they more or less likely to be better at what they do? Martell's numbers went up simply because he had more opportunities and didn't have to worry about making a mistake and being pulled. It's also hard to do Martell's numbers because he shot so little in the early going.
0-1 is .000%, but 1-2 is .500% and his numbers look like an all star. It's no coincidence that his 2 highest shooting % months came in the two months that he played the most minutes. The other thing I'd like to point out is that he shot 35% from 3 pt range. If I'm not mistaken that's about the same as over 50% from 2 pt range.
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If someone gets consistent PT, he usually plays better. That's true (although you neglect to mention how Telfair somehow improved despite going from the consistent starter to the sometimes backup), but that effect probably isn't enough to explain how much Webster improved.
As for the problem of sample size, in the pre-AS period he played in 31 games and took 4.4 FGA per game on his way to shooting 33%. That's not 0/1, that's somewhere around 45/135, which is a large enough sampling for us to rule out the likelihood of a 10 percent variance. He was bad at the start of the season, and subjectively, I bet you would have a hard time finding very many people who would agree with your assertion that Martel Webster didn't go from bad to noticably better over the course of last season. He was so bad last year they sent him to the D-league, but by the end of last season we were all pretty confident that he will never be sent there again.
And re 3pt %, you are mistaken that shooting 33% from 3pt is the same as shooting 50% from 2pt. It scores as many points on each FGA, but 3pters usually result in fewer FTs for the shooter, leading to a lower points per shot. It puts less pressure on the defense and gives them longer rebounds off of more missed shots (2/3rds of shots are missed, compared to 1/2), which leads to more fast breaks and less foul trouble for opposing teams. In any case, Webster went from being a 33% 3pt, 0.99 PPS player pre-AS game to a 37.5%, 1.27 PPS player after the AS break, so those numbers also support the assertion that Webster made a significant improvement over time.
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08-14-2006, 11:32 PM
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#40 (permalink)
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2003
Location: in the shadow of the Mothership
Posts: 2,378
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Re: How do you distribute frontcourt playing time?
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Originally Posted by Anonymous Gambler
I really don't see a logjam- we have two starters, two reserves and a player to develop. Once Aldridge develops a bit, the player not playing will be La Frentz.
Mags and Joel are the only true centers and they will split the minutes there with the better one starting.
Zach is our starter at the power forward- gets as many minutes as he can play productively. Reserve to Raef and then eventually to Aldridge.
This is really no different a situation than we had at the end of last year. Zach and Joel with Theo, Skinner and Ha as backups.
With a 12-14 man roster, it's impossible not to be 3 deep at some positions.
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I hear what you're saying except that we've got four guys who are accustomed to significant playing time and who aren't totally injury-prone. Two are starters from last season, one (the team's only all-star) got frustrated last season for getting only reserve minutes, and then we've got one of the highest paid players - and most experienced - on the team in Raef LaFrentz. The guy I'm not mentioning is the #2 pick, overall, in the NBA Draft.
I'd say the situation is different from when the Blazers had a career backup in Skinner, a longshot project in Ha, and a guy who couldn't stay healthy in Theo Ratliff.
It actually reminds me somewhat of Trader Bob, the guy who "isn't a chemistry major." He compulsively stockpiled talent with little regard for how it affected team chemistry. There is a balance between getting enough talent and spreading it across the various positions, and just getting every player you can based on ability - regardless of need and position - with the belief that more talent always makes the team better.
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Next year...
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08-15-2006, 04:34 AM
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#41 (permalink)
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-PREMIUM MEMBER-
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: OR
Age: 24
Posts: 1,025
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Re: How do you distribute frontcourt playing time?
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Originally Posted by dkap
All Martell could do was shoot, but he didn't even know how to get open.
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Reminds of a game I was at last season... Martell is very attentive and wide eyed out there. However, Martell would come down from defense and run right to the same exact spot every time. In the near corner and wait for the ball. So I finally yelled "Martell, move!! Cut to the rim!!" Which he did for a play or two before going back to standing in the corner.
That just illustrates the point to me, young guys need to earn minutes, including Roy. Not only playing hard but learning the plays too. It's funny to think people are already putting Aldrige into the rotation. He played one year at Texas and obviously didn't lift many weights while in Texas. Shouldn't even be considered for minutes (beyond major garbage time) until the all-star break, at the earliest.
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08-15-2006, 12:24 PM
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#42 (permalink)
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Star
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,805
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Re: How do you distribute frontcourt playing time?
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Originally Posted by RoseCity
Reminds of a game I was at last season... Martell is very attentive and wide eyed out there. However, Martell would come down from defense and run right to the same exact spot every time. In the near corner and wait for the ball. So I finally yelled "Martell, move!! Cut to the rim!!" Which he did for a play or two before going back to standing in the corner.
That just illustrates the point to me, young guys need to earn minutes, including Roy. Not only playing hard but learning the plays too. It's funny to think people are already putting Aldrige into the rotation. He played one year at Texas and obviously didn't lift many weights while in Texas. Shouldn't even be considered for minutes (beyond major garbage time) until the all-star break, at the earliest.
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I agree with this. I think people say Alridge should get major PT because of where he was drafted, but this is a major sunk-cost fallacy. On the court, it doesn't matter when someone was drafted. Aldridge should be good someday, but he's still a kid right now, so he's squarely 5th on the big man depth chart. I await the day he beats out Raef LaFrentz for solid rotation minutes.
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08-15-2006, 12:44 PM
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#43 (permalink)
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Corvallis, OR
Age: 23
Posts: 1,939
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