ABM

Curious

HKF

It depends, because all the fans can finally see that Shaq really doesn't care about Basketball that much. He just happened to be real good at it. Seriously this guy doesn't get in shape and if they would have won only one championship he would have been fine with that. I mean Phil Jackson had to ask him to play hard in this game 6, which is just ridiculous.

I think he should retire. I am also now convinced that if Phil was not there, Kobe and Shaq would not have ever won, because I have a feeling they still don't like each other because of Shaq's laziness.

I mean if you put any other star with Shaq w/o Phil they wouldnt win because Shaq is an unmotivated sack of crap and I can't wait for him to leave the league so other players will go back to playing Center again growing up.

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My favorite NBA players: Deron Williams * Kobe Bryant * Carmelo Anthony * Ben Gordon * Joe Johnson * Kevin Martin * Tim Duncan * Kyle Lowry * Thad Young * Amare Stoudemire * Dwight Howard * Josh Smith * Brandon Roy * LaMarcus Aldridge * Rudy Gay * Al Horford * Brandan Wright * Craig Smith * Renaldo Balkman * Wilson Chandler

2008-09 Favorite Rookies: Jerryd Bayless (POR), Roy Hibbert (IND), Greg Oden (POR), Chris Douglas-Roberts (NJN), Joe Alexander (MIL), Patrick Ewing, Jr. (NYK)

College Basketball: "Where 7-Foot Bigs Foul Out Happen"

mook

Not a chance. I think a lot of people realize that if they'd been smart enough to make the moves the Kings did last summer (sign Keon Clark and Jim Jackson) they'd probably be on their way to ring #4.

That's what bums me out about LA. It's not like Shaq or Kobe looked over the hill in this year's playoffs. It's just that their normal assortment of crappy players were even crappier than normal.

Hell, if Robert Horry doesn't shoot 2-38 (a whopping 5%) from 3 in the playoffs, they'd probably have taken the Spurs.

Guys like Jim Jackson and Keon Clark are going to be available every year for a contending team, especially with the way salaries are managed now.

Assuming the Spurs get another All-Star or two (extremely likely) and the Lakers get just slightly better scrubs (also extremely likely) I give either team a 50:50 shot at another title next year.

mook

I don't see how anybody can say Shaq doesn't care about basketball. The guy did average 27 points and 15 boards in the playoffs. Maybe not quite as good as past years, but that's still better production than our Blazers have had in the playoffs, since, christ, Bill Walton?

Man, am I turning into a Shaq apologist? Lord help me.

s a b a s 11

Nah.

If you are talking getting rid of Kobe and Shaq. Even Fisher and Horry. I just don't see it happening. Having the former will get you 45 wins a season alone and they are proven winners (<- saying that hurts me more than you know)

No, a combo like that with a coach that can motivate is tough to come by.

Stuart

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Schilly

I voted yes.

Their team is starting to break down. Kobe is still great, I doubt he's going anywhere. Shaq is still domionate, but he isn't the force he used to be. Their role players are the key here.

Also this si a maybe, but should Jackson step down, I would imagine they look to rejuvinate that team around Kobe. The only way they can do that is by trading Shaq.

Peolpe looking for a ring won't necessarily bandwagon to LA as people suspect. Why not go to a team like the Spurs, who just beat LA. If Pippen wants another ring, why fight the Spurs who will add at leas one more All-Star to Tim and Tony?

Minstrel

I think the issue is that, for Shaq, basketball clearly isn't his entire life. Which I don't fault him for, personally. Certain athletes, it seems clear that their sport is their life. Kobe Bryant was crying as he left the court. Shaq was quite dry-eyed, all through-out the post-game proceedings, not to mention Shaq has never really given off an aura that what happens on the court will make or break him.

Shaq leaves basketball in the gym. Others, like Kobe, take it with them when they leave. I can't say one is right and one isn't. It's personal preference how much your job affects your emotional well-being.

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You'll never live like common people
You'll never do what common people do
You'll never fail like common people
You'll never watch your life slide out of view
And dance and drink and screw
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jackiejackal

The Portland playoffs were helped by refs and lack of shooting..and Sabas with 3 fouls in 1 quarter..and Shaq with ????
The Sac playoffs and eventual title were Shaq,Kobe,and the refs.
Last year was their only legitimate one..

Trader Ed

Yes, htey should send Kobe to the Blazers for whomever matches his salary pay.... we will even give them the additional 15% benefitr of the doubt... He can be our shooting guard....



That will break up the dynasty....

Kobe makes $12.375 mill

We can offer them Wallace, our 1st rd pick and max cash for Kobe and filler

or

Wells $5.8 mill, Patterson $4.891, and McInnis $3 mill, + our 1st rd pick and max cash...

Gee, will they do it????

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Public Defender

The Lakers would be crazy to break up the best duo in the NBA or get rid of the game's most succesful active coach.

If I were Mitch Kupchak, I'd probably look for a set of young role players - even if they don't have the talent of Robert Horry and Derek Fisher - and get them ready to go. And I don't mean Mark Madsen and Pargo.

The Lakers should look to who's going to be their third scorer. Someone at the SF or PF position should be able to give the Lakers a regular 15-18 points, a few boards, and heads-up defense. Once upon a time, that could have been Rick Fox, but he doesn't have the speed that he used to, and after his surgery, he's likely to be even slower. That used to be Robert Horry, for that matter, but age is catching up with him all over.

If I were the Lakers, I'd make a strong play for Elton Brand.... he's a youngster, he's already in LA, and he's an inside option for when Shaq is hurt or playing lazy during the regular season.

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Minstrel

Less talented than Horry and Fisher and yet more talented than Madsen and Pargo? Do such people exist? I mean, at one time Horry was quite a good player...the shell that exists today (who's considered to have earned his whole paycheck if he misses every shot in the season as long as he hits a playoff game-winner) and Fish seem only one step up from Madsen and Pargo.

I don't think a level exists between those two sets of players.

__________________
You'll never live like common people
You'll never do what common people do
You'll never fail like common people
You'll never watch your life slide out of view
And dance and drink and screw
Because there's nothing else to do.

Public Defender

You said it yourself, Min... Horry was at one time a very good player - and that's the player the Lakers expected when they signed him three years ago.

I'm talking Horry and Fisher in their primes - which they're well past. The Lakers need to look for players that have talent, but they need to be guys who aren't going to fall apart over the course of a season.

Fisher was a solid point guard before his ankles and feet started failing. No one was a quicker one-on-one defender and he was a frustratingly good shooter from the outside. A few years ago, Fisher was about the only PG who could stay in front of Stoudamire.

I'm simply advising the Lakers not have their standards as high as "well, when we signed Robert Horry, he could do this..." or "when Derek was really doing what we wanted, this was his skill level..." The Lakers got both those guys when they had a lot of game left... but a few years later and lots of playoff games, all that game's been played.

Madsen, however, is useless. Can't hit a ten-footer with any regularity, doesn't know when and where to foul, can't hit free throws, and can't get off the floor for rebounds.

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Minstrel

Hmm, well, we agree on Horry, but in my opinion, Fisher has always been overrated because he played for a winner. I'm surprised you considered him such a quick defender, because when I used to characterize him as too small and too slow, Lakers fans I talked to didn't really deny it, they just claimed he had heart and hustle.

In my opinion, Fisher taking charges was simply him being too slow to stay with his man, so he'd just throw himself in front of them once and generate contact. Most of the time, it's a block, but he also got charges.

Even in his prime, I'd never have exchanged Augmon or Anthony, even in their elder Portland states, for him. I pick those two players as fairly comparable roles...defensive-minded role-players.

That said, I guess I'm blowing up a side issue...I agree with your central point. The Lakers need to find some good role-fillers without thought to what they used to have, or what they thought they used to have, in Horry and Fisher. They just need to get younger, more athletic players.

__________________
You'll never live like common people
You'll never do what common people do
You'll never fail like common people
You'll never watch your life slide out of view
And dance and drink and screw
Because there's nothing else to do.

Public Defender

Oh, now you're not playin' fair. My old moniker AugmonAnthony2000 represents my loyalties pretty well. Greg Anthony was one of the best defenders of PGs the league's seen in the last ten years - but he was never a dependable offensive threat. And Stacey Augmon can still defend four positions better than anyone... maybe short of Bruce Bowen or Ruben Patterson... but Augmon's offense was always so limited, opponents could practically play 5 defenders against 4 Blazers.

However, Fisher was a good defensive point guard and could shoot when his wheels were still good. The Lakers first two championships were won on the strength of their defense and the fact that their role players could make shots when they had to... and Fish was a big part of that. Sure, he's not a great player by any means, but he's head-and-shoulders above that hack Pargo or Penberthy, or one of the other poseurs they've tried.

The point remains - the Lakers need to set higher standards for their role players... but not so high that they're unattainable. A serviceable point guard, like Fish in his prime, and a forward who can play D and shoot, like Horry once upon a time. (rhyme unintended - )

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