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I hope Atlanta gets the #1 or 2 pick. They have sucked for way too long.

LameR

They'd probably somehow end up just drafting another average swingman.

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LameR

So you're saying trading an all-star calibre PF, and a young, decent PG for an aging player with an expiring contract (meaning he'll be gone before we make any type of contention), a decent big man, and a mid-round pick is a good thing? Sorry, but I just think:

Randolph, Jack >>>>> Ollie (meh), Dalembert, and the 18

A lot of people were talking about packaging Zach in a deal to get someone along the lines of Rashard Lewis, Gerald Wallace, or even Luol Deng. In my mind, seeing something with Dalembert and the 18 is a huge letdown compared to any of those. And even if I decided to think Dalembert is a ton better than he is, to the point where I actually like the deal, I would never say we're making out like bandits.

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Masbee

It starts with Jessica Alba, its' set on a white sand beach on a private island....

Don't like it.

If the Blazers have the chance to draft Oden or Durant, and trade away that chance, somebody is getting hurt (probably me, but that's besides the point - pain and suffering will occur).

Andre Miller is not a SuperStar and has zero chance of becomming one.

Iggy is not a SuperStar and has a low chance of becomming one. Iggy's first two seasons were very unimpressive. He is playing a lot better now. He is a fine young player, but really people, he gets tons of hype because he is in the East. Right now as a 3rd year player....he isn't any better than Brandon Roy - the rookie. They are about the same age.

Would you trade Durant for Roy?

Masbee

Is it weird if I ask to join your fantasy?

Masbee

How is Iggy "way" more valuable than Zach, or even Miller, a very solid PG, playing a position of scarcity.

Zach plays in the paint, draws doubles as much as any of the top SuperStars in the league and his career PER and this season's PER is significantly higher than Iggy's.

Swings are the most common type of decent quality out there.

And, why do you think he is a perennial all-star, when he has yet to put up even one season of borderline all-star quality play?

He has to jump into this group right?:

Wade, LeBron, Redd, Pierce, and Carter

These guys are right there with Iggy now and will battle with him for years to come for any open spots: Joe Johnson, Gerald Wallace, Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, Rip Hamilton, Caron Butler, Josh Smith, Prince, Childress, Peja and others I have forgot and rookies coming in.

Iggy will have to up his game a lot from where it currently stands before he is a "perennial all-star".

MARIS61

My off-season Fantasy has Magic Johnson coming to Nate in a dream, convincing him to embrace the running game and eschew his obsession with SnailBall.

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dudleysghost

Miller is an ok point guard, but really nothing special IMO. Zach's value is debateable, but for all his PER, he's still a bad defensive player. Iggy is a great one. He's also still pretty young and continues to improve his play greatly each year. When a player does that, like Deng also has done, one has a good reason to extrapolate that he'll end up at a high point. Iggy also has only recently been freed of the shackles of playing in Iverson's shadow. I agree, the competition for AS in the East is tough at guard, but I figured Iggy would play SF. Either way, I'd take his future over any of those guys you listed except lebron, wade, johnson and Deng. He will be up there in Deng's class, mark my words.

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Masbee

I agree Miller is nothing special. However, I will repeat, an "ok" but proven solid PG, is more rare, and thus more valuable than a direct stat or observational method would indicate. When a team does not have even an "ok" PG, they go a little crazy. Gotta have one. Aren't enough to go around.

I can't even think of 1 team that does not have at least 1 "ok" 2 and/or 3. So the value of Miller is all out of proportion due to his position. Supply and Demand. 30 teams. Not 30 ok PGs. More than 30 ok 2s & 3s.

Having seen him in only a few games I cannot comment on this, only to point out this is the first time I have ever heard Iggy described as a "great one". Regardless of the truth of his defense, when it comes to All-Star status, nothing could be less important than how a player does on the defensive end.

I am not sure how you can dis Zach and his "stats", then use stats to show that Iggy is good. They are both on bad teams. With AI Iggy didn't win much. Without AI and adding Miller the team is doing better, yet still not setting the world on fire. What was more important, AI leaving, Iggy stepping up, addition of a real PG, or the team moving past the trade crisis?

Since his PER did not improve from his rookie year to his 2nd year, I am not sure where the support for "greatly" improved play will be.

I went to Dougs stats to see how "hot" Iggy has been now that it is his team, and he has been good, but at Tendex 18 for the last 10 games that doesn't seen to match the 20 - 6 - 6 you have for him. The Texdex 18 puts Iggy at 18th place for all 2s & 3s the last 10 games. That's good, not great.
http://www.dougstats.com/06-07TendexLF.html
Iggy is the kind of player I tend to like and I would be excited if he were on our team and likely a big fan. I just don't think he is anywhere worth the trade suggested.

dudleysghost

I wasn't trying to dis Miller or Zach. I like both players quite a bit actually. I'm one of the people that gets accused of being a "Zach apologist" in here, lol. I think Denver got an absolute steal when they signed Miller as a free agent, and I think far too many people in here don't appreciate what Zach does. That said, there's no way any team, if faced with the possibility, would give up Iguodala to get Zach or Miller, and it isn't just because of contract status. Maybe you disagree with that assertion, but I have no doubt in my mind. That's why I feel pretty justified in saying that Iggy has more value.

And I don't have a problem with using stats to build an argument. I only mentioned Iggy's and Zach's defense because it's the one thing that doesn't show up in PER. I think PER does tell part of the story, and I mentioned defense to fill in the rest. Both are important aspects of a player.

I totally agree about the all-star game undervaluing defense though. Maybe "perennial all-star" is overly optimistic. He would not only have to make it on offensive numbers alone, but also be on a consistently good team to reach that status. If he doesn't make it though, it will probably be because the AS game undervalues defense and teamwork and not because the players picked ahead of him are actually better. I'd take Iguodala over Vince Carter any day of the week.

It may not impress you, but with how bad they were previously, and how relatively thin and young their roster is, going almost .500 since the trade is pretty good IMO. All those things you mentioned are factors. I think Iverson is perhaps the most overrated player in the league, and his inability to elevate the Nugs is evidence of it (Minstrel, remember when I told you that before?).

But Iguodala is leading that team now with his play, and doing a good job of it both in his own statline and in the W column. He is more effective now because he has the ball in his hands more. I know a lot of people like Kyle Korver and Sam Dalembert for their stats, but I think they are mediocre at best, so leading a team with them, Andre Miller and a bunch of kids and no-names to a decent win % is quite an impressive achievement.

Ok, I think this is nitpicking just a bit. If you looked up his PER, you surely saw that it did improve a bunch between his second and third year, and it's probably been even higher since the Iverson trade. I think if the Sixers can add one more good piece, preferably a veteran, then Iggy's TOs will go down and his PER will bump up even more next year. Even if not, he will still continue to improve. I can't prove it now, but we'll see. I'll be the guy sneaking off with him in next year's fantasy basketball draft.

I got my stats from Yahoo, using the "last month" filter in the fantasy sports section. I'm pretty sure it was accurate.

As for him being in 18th place for all 2s and 3s ... I don't know how they calculate that. Let's assume it's a perfect measure. There are 12 all-star slots, on each team, with an average of 4.8 of them (12 x 0.4) going to 2s and 3s, on each team, for a total of 9.8 all star swingmen selected each year. And that's not including injury. If Iggy is already 18th, at the age of 23 and in his 3rd season, then he's well on his way to be at the very least a perennial contender for the AS game.

I don't think he is worth it either, but I still do think he's more valuable than Andre Miller or Zach Randolph, and WAY more valuable than Shane Battier. I also think he is one of the most underappreciated players in the league right now, but that he won't remain undiscovered for much longer.

edit: I too would love it if Iggy were on our team, but there isn't a chance in heck Philly is trading him away, because unlike the rest of the league, they know what they have.

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LameR

Yup. Iggy's been playing very well since AI's departure. I think some people on this board are definitely underrating him.

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ebott

Every other idea I've seen so far sucks. (Sorry Masbee, I even think your Jessica Alba one sucks. She just never did anything for me.) Trading our mediocre players for other mediocre players and ending up with a whole bunch of mediocre players. Mediocrity sucks. It sucks even more than actually sucking.

Here's my fantasy...

Get the #1 pick, draft Oden.
Trade Zach for Joe Johnson.

c- Oden, Pryz
pf- Aldridge, LaFrentz
sf- Johnson, Webster
sg- Roy, Freddie
pg- Jack, Rodriguez

ThatBlazerGuy