Ed O

I can understand this point if we were comparing Brewer to, say, Julian Wright (a young, talented player who hasn't really done much at the college level) or a prospect from a smaller school.

But Green was the Big East player of the year as a junior. He was Big East co-rookie of the year as a freshman (and Basketball Times's national freshman of the year). He was second-team all Big East as a sophomore. He led his team deep into the NCAA tournament, including hitting a game-winner in the third round.

Green's production and performances have been BETTER than Brewer's. He didn't play in back-to-back championship games, so people didn't see him as much, but given his superior collegiate career AND superior combine numbers, I definitely prefer him to Brewer.

Ed O.

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"In the end, it all comes down to talent. You can talk all you want about intangibles, I just don't know what that means. Talent makes winners, not intangibles. Can nice guys win? Sure, nice guys can win -- if they're nice guys with a lot of talent. Nice guys with a little talent finish fourth, and nice guys with no talent finish last."

-- Sandy Koufax

hasoos

You can argue the numbers things all you want. He played more minutes then Brewer, and yet only was marginally better in numbers per game, yet at the same time I would also argue that Brewer is not asked to do as much for his team, as they had a heavier talent level. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Jeff Green. I just don't think he is the option that Brewer is. Put it this way. I have some concerns with Jeff Greens speed

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Hasoos

darkhelmit54

I'll put it this way, I have problems with Brewers size, strength, ball handling ability, floor spacing knowledge, and shooting. I don't want young Bruce Bowen!

andalusian

With the rest of the team so young - a young Bruce Bowen would be fantastic - as he grows with Oden (Robinson+, we hope), Aldridge (Duncan-, we hope) and Roy (young Manu?) / Sergio/Jack (Parker? hmm... harder to compare these two to Parker).

A Bruce Bowen like player (great perimeter defensive wing that can hit the 3) is exactly what a team like Portland needs. Exactly.

Boob-No-More

Hey, what's wrong with Brewer's strength? He was one of the few guys at Orlando asked to bench press his own weight and did it 11 times. He's not going to win an Olympic gold medal in weight lifting, but it's not like he's Kevin Durant weak.

Seriously, I'd take Brewer over Green for his better defense, Green over Thortnon for his better all-around game and basketball IQ, and Thornton over Thad Young or Julian Wright for his proven scoring ability and better outside shot. That's my wish list for a SF, in that order, if we get an additional pick (and it's not the second pick - then I'd take Durant in spite of his 98-lb weakling status).

BNM

Boob-No-More

Given you're arguments about Thornton's superior outside shooting being negligible, I'm surprised you'd make such a strong statement about Green's numbers being BETTER (all caps, no less). Yeah, he scored 1.1 more PPG on 0.7 more FGA and his PER was 24.1 vs. 22.8. So, SLIGHT advantage to Green in individual offensive stats. I'll give you that. But offense is only half the game and Brewer is far superior to Green at the other half.

Also, Brewer played on a team with a very balanced offense. He averaged 13.2 PPG on a team where all five starters averaged between 10.3 and 13.3 PPG (four between 12.0 and 13.3 PPG) and all attempted between 286 and 356 FGs (286, 305, 306, 347, 356) for the season. Obviously, his individual offensive stats were diluted by the fact that he played on a team with two other high lottery picks and a fourth player possibly going late first round or early second round the the latest. Green was the leading scorer on a team that would have had one other player drafted - had he not decided to go back to college. And Green took 92 more shots (382) than any of his teammates (262, 276, 277, 290, 382). He was clearly their number one option on offense. So, you'd expect his offensive numbers to be higher than Brewer's, which they are - slightly.

And yes, the fact that Brewer was a key player in Florida's back-to-back national championship teams is a factor. He's proven himself to be an outstanding role player on a championship team - and that's EXACTLY what I want in a small forward for this Blazer team. I don't want a guy who wants to be the number one option on offense or needs a lot of touches to be effective, but is still capable of knocking down the big shot when needed, and capable of playing lock down perimeter defense - just like he did at Florida.

BNM

SodaPopinski

I don't like the fact that he disappeared in the biggest game of his career against Ohio State this year in the tourney.

It's worth noting this is the exact reason why I LIKED Brandon Roy coming into the draft last year. He CARRIED a mediocre Huskies team to the Elite 8 and played some of his best games against tough competition in a win-or-go-home format. I like that in a player.

I'm not sure Jeff Green fits that mold. If you look at his numbers or how he's playing in these controlled environments in his pre-draft workouts, I can see how you'd get enamored. But I want to know how he's going to play in the 4th quarter, when the team needs someone to step up to get them a victory.

I'm not sold on Jeff Green at all.

-Pop

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BuckW4GM

i'm still torn between green and brewer, although i'm leaning more towards green now after the combine numbers. brewer's wingspan wasn't what i was expecting. a deciding factor for me is who will be able to improve on their outside shooting more. with green's shooting mechanic, i'm going to have to go with green as the player more likely to improve his shot.

Ed O

This seems to be thrown around a lot; I'm not sure it's at all true. Green was one of the best defenders in the Big East this year.

I'm not sure that's different than Georgetown... they had five players between 14.3 and 9.1 ppg who all attempted between 262 and 382 FGs in the season. It's a wider spread than Florida, for sure, but not THAT much more.

There's no question that his numbers weren't much better, but the pace of the two teams should be considered... the Gators scored about 80 ppg, while the Hoyas scored 70. I don't know where the two teams are in terms of pace, but just as a rough estimate that's a 14% increase in stats across the board because of Florida's higher scoring.

If this were a Thornton v. Brewer debate, I'd totally buy it. The fact is, though, that other than the championships, the same arguments could be made about Green that you're making about Brewer. Green IS a very good perimeter defender. He DOES do things without the ball (the Princeton offense that Georgetown runs makes that sort of mandatory). He rebounds, he passes well, he handles the ball.

He's also bigger and stronger and a better shooter.

Ed O.

__________________
"In the end, it all comes down to talent. You can talk all you want about intangibles, I just don't know what that means. Talent makes winners, not intangibles. Can nice guys win? Sure, nice guys can win -- if they're nice guys with a lot of talent. Nice guys with a little talent finish fourth, and nice guys with no talent finish last."

-- Sandy Koufax

Boob-No-More

Pace adjusted PT/40:

Green = 19.2
Brewer = 18.4

Again, a very sligtht advantage for Green (as expected), but not enough IMHO to make up for Brewer's better perimeter defense.

It's only one stat, and it's as much about playing the passing lanes as face up man defense, but Brewer averaged 2.6 pace adjusted steals/40 compared to 1.0 for Green. It doesn't really show Brewer's overall defensive superiority, but it gives you a glimpes at the kind if impact he has on the defensive end of the court. To really appreciate his defense, you need to watch him play.

Brewer is a much better perimeter defender and will be able to guard boths 2s and 3s in the NBA. I don't think Green has the lateral quickness to guard most NBA 3s and although big for a 3, isn't exactly ideally suited to guarding bigger, stronger NBA 4s either - not that we'd really want him too with Oden and Aldridge providing interior defense. What I REALLY want is someone who can clamp own on the other team's best perimeter scorer. To me, Corey Brewer is MUCH better suited to that task than Jeff Green.

BNM

magnifier

I'm there with ya Ed. I absolutely think Green will be the Dark horse in the draft class. He's got all the skills to contribute, RIGHT NOW. I would love if KP was able to grab him.

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Woke up, got out of bed, got a Blazer logo on my head!

Boob-No-More

Important in a 4/5, but no as much in a 3.

Brewer is much faster and quicker than Green. IMHO, a more important skill set in a perimeter player than size and strength. Of the 15 players that posted a 3.22 or faster 3/4 court sprint, Brewer was the tallest (by an inch over Al Thorton and Thad Young). By comparison, Green's time of 3.34 is very unimpresive for a guy only an inch taller than Brewer and truly unexceptional for a guy who will be asked to guard small forwards in the NBA. There were multiple power forwards and one center (guess who) who were faster. Green's lateral quicknes is also inferior for a 3.

These are just numbers and don't tell the whole story, but in a perimeter defender, I'd generally take the guy who's a step (or two) faster/quicker over the guy who's an inch taller and has the same standing reach.

I think the real difference is I place a higher priority on perimeter defense at the 3 than scoring (where Green is only SLIGHTLY better) and passing (where Green is again only very slightly better 4.3 pace adjusted Assists/40 vs. 4.1 ). We already have our PG and Roy to handle the ball, run the offense and pass to open teammates. What we REALLY lack is an exceptional perimeter defender. Roy is already about average on defense and may get better, but I don't see him becoming a true defensive stopper. Sergio, if he really is our PG of the future is a very weak defender, but a great passer. So, to me, this team's needs Brewer's superior perimeter defense more than Green's slightly better scoring and passing.

BNM

darkhelmit54

I think that there's lots of SF's the spurs would be better with than Bowen personally.