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ljm · 12-04-2007, 01:43 PM

My favorite, and what I took to be the biggest step in Travis' development was after he hit the 3, he was actually yelling while running back down the court (probably something like "That's what you $@#$%$#@$@!@'s get for leaving me open!"). To see the normally shy guy do something like that is huge IMO. I'm happy for him, what a night.

Also, on the replay, the reason he was out of position for the box out on Rudy was that left to help Blake on Navarro's drive/shot. Not sure if that was necessarily the right move (not in retrospect of course), but it actually seems like a defensable help rotation.

-ljm

**HOWIE** · 12-04-2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c_note

In other words, C_note, you were right, I was wrong, I'll just insult you 'cuz there's nothing else to say.

Basically.

it is nice to see players increasing their trade value, Outlaw might still be a Blazer next year, if he keeps up the play I'm down with that too.

c_note · 12-04-2007, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgb

Checking out just the first page of that thread most was against it. A couple, including the person that made the post was for it, but most of the replies said it was way to early to give up on Webster and/or that he shouldn't be in the trade.

I know I've defended Webster in the past. I'll admit some were ready to give up on him, but just as many were not.

Same goes with Outlaw. He's had just as many posters defending him as not. Maybe you notice the negative posts more.

For that particular trade, 50% of people were saying it wasn't quite worth it. But I can assure you they would've pulled the trigger if a slightly better offer came along

c_note · 12-04-2007, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masbee

In my case, no, I did not comment on the trade. You can't say I supported the trade. I don't advocate making "lateral" trades for young teams. Since I am part of the group "everyone" (who posted in that thread), your assertion is false.

I did claim that Webster hadn't shown to be even an average player his first two seasons, and that history says that makes for low odds he will ever become an above average player.

You are using the current play of Outlaw and Webster to support an "I told you so", that they would make leaps in ability if we just waited longer than we already had.

I think you claims are unsubstantiated.

The team is losing, and losing a LOT. A win against another bottom feeder does little to change the equation of this season. If the young guys are improved, why do we still suck?

PER numbers (15.0 is average for the league)

Webster:
05-06: 11.6
06-07: 10.0
this season so far: 11.88

Outlaw:
04-05: 15.4
05-06: 12.9
06-07: 15.3
this season so far: 14.22

Gee, guess they haven't really improved (yet). Hope springs eternal. Might want to put that "I told you so" back in your pocket.

Obviously they are not producing consistently night in and night out, but my original intent was to just prove that it would be foolish to dump them for next to nothing.

And I think this year thus far proves it. Of course, it is not over yet, they are both still extremely young, but I think everyone realizes now they are much more valuable than originally thought. And what does stats have to do with it? Can't you tell that they both have improved drastically since the beginning of last year?

c_note · 12-04-2007, 03:16 PM

Looking back through the old threads, it was mostly dudleysghost that I was arguing with about Martell and Travis.
So I'm sorry if I accused others of the same thing. I couldn't remember who it was.

What up dudley!

**Dan** · 12-04-2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talkhard

Huh?

here is a somewhat reasonable explanation. I think. Kind of.

**KingSpeed** · 12-05-2007, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatBlazerGuy

I dont get it when Blazer fans are expected to trip over their own mediocre players.

If your 'Love all Blazer players' idea was correct, all terrible Blazers like Raef would be loved.

Travis Outlaw is an interesting player, but until I see some sort of consistency I refuse to jump on his bandwagon. At the same time, I value him more than Jack. Either way, Outlaw hit a nice buzzer-beater and will never be truly remembered for this above average game unless he plays somewhat like this while this struggling team is vying for a decent playoff spot; something I wager he wont be involved in,

Never be remembered? I will always remember that finish. I've watched the Blazers since 1989 and I consider that finish by Outlaw to be one of my all-time favorite highlights. Have you ever seen anyone on our team finish a game with a shot like that? Such moments are few and far between.

As for Raef, I don't think he's a terrible player. And I root for him to do well.

Go Blazers

**KingSpeed** · 12-05-2007, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hasoos

When Travis Outlaw steps up and becomes consistent, I will like him. But until then, he is going to be one of those guys that I hold my breath and cringe when he has the ball. Maybe this game will help him out in his developement.

Are you going to wait for Roy to be consistent before you like him? How about Oden? Will you be waiting for consistency before you like him?

**KingSpeed** · 12-07-2007, 01:27 AM

Another clutch performance by Travis vs the Heat tonight.

GO BLAZERS

dudleysghost · 12-07-2007, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c_note

Looking back through the old threads, it was mostly dudleysghost that I was arguing with about Martell and Travis.
So I'm sorry if I accused others of the same thing. I couldn't remember who it was.

What up dudley!

I said Martell wouldn't be more than an ordinary player. Is that so far off? Don't remember what I said about Outlaw, but probably about the same thing. Both have been pleasant surprises for me, but neither is ever going to be a real star like you seem to think. Is that what you wanted?

c_note · 12-07-2007, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudleysghost

I said Martell wouldn't be more than an ordinary player. Is that so far off? Don't remember what I said about Outlaw, but probably about the same thing. Both have been pleasant surprises for me, but neither is ever going to be a real star like you seem to think. Is that what you wanted?

I never claimed both would be "Stars". You were repeatedly passing both of them off as worthless and I attempted to show you how you were wrong. I guess the only thing that did convince you was the passing of time, like all the other haters here.

**Talkhard** · 12-07-2007, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talkhard

I'm hoping that his game-winning shot last night is a turning point in his career, and that it makes him realize he can be a big-time player in this league. Last night's performance may give him the confidence that he needs to take his game to another level.

Hey, I'm quoting myself!!

Last night's game was only one step, but my Lord, Outlaw looked good. That monster dunk and the reverse slam, not to mention his good outside shooting and aggressive rebounding make me wonder if he didn't turn the page on his career against Memphis. He looked like a real pro out there last night, and you can actually see the difference in his body language and attitude. This guy doesn't just think he belongs in the NBA--He knows it!!

dudleysghost · 12-07-2007, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c_note

I never claimed both would be "Stars". You were repeatedly passing both of them off as worthless and I attempted to show you how you were wrong. I guess the only thing that did convince you was the passing of time, like all the other haters here.

I never said they were worthless. I compared Martell to role players and talked about how his skill set was too limited to be a star, and you went ape. But you go ahead and remember it however you want.

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