View Poll Results: If you had to give up one of these two players would would it be?

darkhelmit54 · 01-16-2008, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mook

Outlaw is taller, can create his own shot, has more athleticism, is a better help defender and an equal man defender, and is a better midrange shooter. Webster is a better perimeter shooter.

aside from all that (which is quite a bit), Outlaw has demonstrated the ability to drastically improve over time. Webster might show that capacity for growth, but he might not.

Outlaw didn't display the ability to "drastically improve" until this year probably, I'd argue Martell has grown much more in his third year and become much more of a viable option at 21 than Travis ever was! You have to compare Travis' third year to Martell's, not Travis' fifth year to Martell's third.

darkhelmit54 · 01-16-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROY4MVP

How about we keep them both? Trout can easily swing at SF/PF, while martell could swing SF/3G. So there is no battle for a position, why trade one of them. If I were to trade anyone it would jack, he just doesn't fit with this team, AT ALL.

Something we should all be able to agree to.

darkhelmit54 · 01-16-2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hasoos

The other thing I often think about with these 2 players development is that a large part of their careers were under Cheeks. I often wonder if those years weren't just as close to doing nothing and that if they had a different coach, they would have developed quicker.

TIM GRGURICH

BlazerFan22 · 01-16-2008, 03:08 PM

I am just really blown away by how tight this poll is I'm just blown. I love TLaw and I do hope we could keep them both. I picked Webster though I see him haveing a bigger upside on offence and Outlaw haveing a bigger upside on defence. For this team though I see Webster haveing the bigger role though.

**STOMP** · 01-16-2008, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpt.napalm

My vote depends on whether or not we can keep Jones, and Blake. If we can't keep those guys we have no other perimeter threats and teams would just collapse on us.

Not true. There are few on Portland's roster who aren't decent shooters from the perimeter... I'd only list Oden, Joel, and Sergio as non threats and Rudy is clearly going to be very good from deep. Kaponen is supposed to be pretty lights out from the outside as well though time will tell if he's able to step in for Blake when his contract is up after next season.

With the addition of Greg and Rudy, Portland's frontcourt rotation should become a little more traditionally defined with a starter and a main backup at that position. Joel will be backing up Greg, Frye behind Aldridge... so who gets the 48 minutes a night at SF? Thats too few minutes for 3 guys. I think we've the wrong two guys in this poll as it's Jones and Martell with the similar games of hanging out on the perimeter.

Travis's ability to create his own shot is a major plus in his favor IMO. Open looks are great, but when the 24 second clock is running down or it's late in the 4th quarter, the D steps up and getting an open look is far from a given. The value of TO's ability to separate can't be overstated... Roy and Aldridge can both do this pretty well, but I think Travis is the best on the club at it.

James Jones just turned 27 a few months back. Obviously he's scorching the nets this year and is a major threat from the outside. He's not been the healthiest though... maybe thats a legit concern? So is what sort of offers he might fetch this upcoming summer... but then so is Webster the following year. I really don't want to see Portland tie up too much cash in players who're mainly deep threats. It seems there are always decent shooters available for a MLE... heck just look at the guys that the Spurs have picked up over the years with theirs (Bowen, Barry, Finley).

STOMP

**STOMP** · 01-16-2008, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhelmit54

Outlaw didn't display the ability to "drastically improve" until this year probably, I'd argue Martell has grown much more in his third year and become much more of a viable option at 21 than Travis ever was! You have to compare Travis' third year to Martell's, not Travis' fifth year to Martell's third.

No you don't. Martell was better then Travis his rookie year through his 3rd year sure, but it doesn't equate that this discrepancy will continue. Travis has progressed leaps and bounds from those days and is just starting to tap into his enormous physical gifts. Mostly because Martell will never ever have Travis's hops, size, or length, I don't think he has the same sort of potential.

STOMP

andalusian · 01-16-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hasoos

Martell played under Cheeks, and then KP his rookie year.

No he has not. This is his 3rd year, same as Nate's.

BlazerFan22 · 01-16-2008, 07:17 PM

Martell didn't play under Cheeks he was drafted the same year that Nate was brought in.

mook · 01-16-2008, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhelmit54

Outlaw didn't display the ability to "drastically improve" until this year probably, I'd argue Martell has grown much more in his third year and become much more of a viable option at 21 than Travis ever was! You have to compare Travis' third year to Martell's, not Travis' fifth year to Martell's third.

If I were buying stocks, would I go with the stock that's steadily had small, incremental gains over three years (Webster), or the one that did nothing for four years and then suddenly shot through the roof (Outlaw)?

I'm putting my money on the stock that has shown massive recent growth. You may disagree and say that I shouldn't because in its third year that stock was performing worse than the other, but I doubt you'd convince me.

Stocks and pro sports are all about "what have you done lately." The reason why has something to do with what a climatology professor I had once said: "If you aren't sure what the weather will be like tomorrow, guess that it'll be the same as today. 60% of the time you'll be right."

I'm guessing Outlaw and Webster both continue to grow at their current rates. That makes Outlaw the much better gamble.

darkhelmit54 · 01-16-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mook

If I were buying stocks, would I go with the stock that's steadily had small, incremental gains over three years (Webster), or the one that did nothing for four years and then suddenly shot through the roof (Outlaw)?

I'm putting my money on the stock that has shown massive recent growth. You may disagree and say that I shouldn't because in its third year that stock was performing worse than the other, but I doubt you'd convince me.

Stocks and pro sports are all about "what have you done lately." The reason why has something to do with what a climatology professor I had once said: "If you aren't sure what the weather will be like tomorrow, guess that it'll be the same as today. 60% of the time you'll be right."

I'm guessing Outlaw and Webster both continue to grow at their current rates. That makes Outlaw the much better gamble.

So you probably loved the extensions to Darius and Ratliff, hated the Zach deal, and don't like Lamarcus Aldridge at all right now (hasn't improved much lately). Stop being so fickle, open your eyes. and I'd argue Martell has made significant gains since he's come into the league, and a big step this year. Martell is younger and less experienced and I think his potential to be a steady ballhandler and smarter player who moves well w/o the ball in incrementally higher than Outlaw, who does have more track star potential!

**STOMP** · 01-16-2008, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhelmit54

Martell is younger and less experienced and I think his potential to be a steady ballhandler and smarter player who moves well w/o the ball in incrementally higher than Outlaw, who does have more track star potential!

huh?

STOMP

LameR · 01-16-2008, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhelmit54

So you probably loved the extensions to Darius and Ratliff, hated the Zach deal, and don't like Lamarcus Aldridge at all right now (hasn't improved much lately). Stop being so fickle, open your eyes. and I'd argue Martell has made significant gains since he's come into the league, and a big step this year.

I don't think you got his comparison. He was comparing years, and Aldridge has significantly improved from last year.

LameR · 01-16-2008, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlazerFan22

I am just really blown away by how tight this poll is I'm just blown. I love TLaw and I do hope we could keep them both. I picked Webster though I see him haveing a bigger upside on offence and Outlaw haveing a bigger upside on defence. For this team though I see Webster haveing the bigger role though.

It's probably because the poll question and your question contradict each other.

View Poll Results: If you had to give up one of these two players would would it be?

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