darkhelmit54

I wasn't saying he is or will be as good. I was saying you're rediculous for writing off his ability as a 21 year old and acting like he's maxed out since he's been in the league three years, that's rediculous. Brandon wasn't that good as a junior in college (remember) on a NateRob dominated team when he was 21 if you remember. Martell has the athletic ability and beautiful jumper, he needs to learn nuances and game flow better. His career path will follow Rashard Lewis with better defense. And is Granger really that much of a superstar? He didn't make the playoffs, in the east, as a 25 year old supposed star. I agree he's better than Martell now, but I think that a role playing athletic 3 with a beautiful jumper fits with Oden, Roy, and Aldridge almost perfectly.

GOD

You do realize that Granger has a better 3pt shot than webster, and he has taken more of the shots, and he is better at most other things as well.

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darkhelmit54

You do realize that:

he had college seasoning where he learned to be 'the man' with plays ran for him
he is the focal point of his teams offense
he is four years older than Martell

GOD

Yes, I was just responding to you thinking that Web would be a great match with the big three. I was just saying, that at least for now (and I think forever most likely) Martell is worse at just about everything. So if Web would be a good match, imagine how much better Granger would be. Now if you really believe that Webs will be better, then we disagree and there is not much that either of us can say to convince the other.

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darkhelmit54

I think you're writing him off very very early in his career. Compare current Webster with college junior Granger is what I'm saying. I think Webster has the athletic ability and potential of Granger, but I haven't seen Granger play much. If Granger is better at creating his own shot that's fine, I'm just saying we don't need more players who can do that necessarily.

GOD

Believe it or not, I am not writing him off. I don't want to dump Webster, I like him and think he will be a decent player with the potential to be a good starter (not great) down the road. I am just not opposed to trading him, or Outlaw, or most other players not named Roy, Oden, Aldridge or Rudy. If a good upgrade is not available this offseason, I would be perfectly happy keeping the players we already have. But I do realize, that you have to give up quality to get a good player. And I would like to upgrade both PG and SF, but mostly PG.

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Zybot

Which of the 3 do you mean: 1) He got fatter (if that is possible), 2) He got more popular than Cowherd and was too much of a threat or they couldn't pay him what he was worth, or 3) He got into a heated argument? I never heard why they got rid of Vance, so I actually would like to know the answer.

PapaG

Huh? Martell shot 166 FTs last season; Outlaw shot 294. Webster averaged 28 mpg; Outlaw averaged 26 mpg.

Am I missing something here?

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...it's largely an anonymous bunch. After the 21-year-old Webster torched the Jazz for 24 third-quarter points on Jan. 5, Utah reserve Matt Harpring observed, "It was tough when what's-his-face got hot."

GOD

WOW, Great point. I guess the only reason that his TS% would be higher is that he scores less but shoots a higher percentage of his shots from three. Just to show the raw data and make things more obvious, I will compare all the shooting stats.

----Webster/Outlaw
mpg: 28.4 / 26.0 Advantage Webster

FGA 656 / 964 Advantage Outlaw
FGM 277 / 417 Advantage Outlaw
FG% .422 / .433 Advantage Outlaw

3ptA 317 / 101 Advantage Webster
3ptM 123 / 40 Advantage Webster
3pt% .388 / .396 Advantage Outlaw

FTA 166 / 294 Advantage Outlaw
FTM 122 / 218 Advantage Outlaw
FT% .735 / .742 Advantage Outlaw

The raw data really shows the truth.

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hasoos

While that's nice and all with the stats, I think there was a reason they pretty much split the minutes last season. They were pretty much equal, with Travis being able to create his own shot a little more. Few players improve much after a certain point of their career. Chances are that Travis is closer to that time than Martell is, just because of age and experience. Nobody can say what will happen, but I have to guess that the coaches and GM have a much better idea than any of us do.

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Hasoos

MrJayremmie

They had different roles on the team. Outlaw was a spark off the bench. His job was to come in and shoot and score, and really did a good job imo. I hope he is back with us next year.

Webster started and played with better players. His job was to play defense and hit open shots when given the opportunity (took most 3s on our team).

They both did well. Outlaw is a better scorer and possibly a better mid-range jump shooter, but not a better 3pt shooter, imo.

I also like Webster's on-ball defense better.

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Jerryd Bayless

GOD

Webster was a more prolific 3pt shooter, but I don't think he can be called a better 3pt shooter when he shot worse. It's not like Outlaw only shot 20 3pters so the sample size is too small, he shot 101 3pters which is more than enough to trust his percentages. And remember the two years before, there was always talk about how in practice Outlaw was the best shooter on the team, but it just never showed up in games. Now it's showing up in games. Personally, I think that Outlaw could more easily take Websters role than Webster could take Outlaws role.

I will say that I agree that Web has more room to improve for two reasons. 1) younger and two fewer years experience. 2) higher bball IQ.

But I disagree that at this moment they are equal. I think that right now, Outlaw is the better player. Web may be better in the future, but he may fall short. I like both players and actually don't think that an upgrade at SF is needed. But, I do think that an upgrade at PG is needed, and likely one of either Web or Outlaw will be needed to make that upgrade happen.

Just my two cents.

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MrJayremmie

Notice the IMO in my quote.

He shot 1% better with shooting more than 200 3 pointers less...

And IDK who i think it better. I think Webster is better as a starter, but Outlaw is better off the bench. I couldn't really say who is overall better as they play a lot different and its too