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meru · 06-04-2008, 09:37 AM

...is getting WAY out of hand. I can't even go to ESPN.com without gagging. I mean, they're actually USING the "way-cool" nickname he GAVE HIMSELF. It's George Costanza's dream! (And "Mamba"? Please. Isn't that what he asks the women to kiss that he forces himself on?)

Question for the Lakers fans that seem to hang around here:

Clearly you're aware that Kobe is the most hated basketball player among non-Lakers fans (except among the impressionable under-tens, who, no coincidence, seem to comprise a large percentage of the Laker boosters posting online). I assume that you chalk this down to Laker-envy. My question to you is, where does your attitude to Bryant lie on this scale:

1) He is as a God amongst men. We are all blinded by his radiance.
2) He's a great, great basketball player and a warm, wonderful human being. A loving husband and a devoted father, and anybody who says otherwise is a LYING ******* WHO IS JUST JEALOUS!!!!!
3) He's a great, great basketball player and that's all I care about. He could be Adolph Hitler off-court and I would still root for him in the games. I don't know about his personal life and I don't care.
4) He's clearly a collossal jerk, but he's not a criminal, and hey, who among us hasn't wanted to force sex on someone else? Come on! Don't say you wouldn't!
5) I only support him because he's on the Lakers. I'm not happy about it, but I'm a Laker fan, and he is our best player. But I really wish he'd get traded, even if our wins suffered.
6) He's scum of the earth. I'm a Clippers fan until we get rid of him.

**HispanicCausinPanic** · 06-04-2008, 09:46 AM

An AMAZING basketball player, no more, no less.

meru · 06-04-2008, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HispanicCausinPanic

An AMAZING basketball player, no more, no less.

So - he ceases to exist when he leaves the basketball court? (He's like a tree falling in a forest.) Or he just ceases to exist for you? (And are these two the same things?)

And are you outing yourself as a Lakers fan, HCP?

**HispanicCausinPanic** · 06-04-2008, 10:08 AM

Like I've said in other threads, I'm a fan of all things basketball. I'm a fan of the game and anyone who has mastered said game. I respect what he is able to do on the court. I pay no attention to what happens with Kobe off the court, the same can be said for Steve Nash and Dwight Howard. I love their game. I also don't pay any attention to anything they do off it. I love hoops plain and simple. Born and raised in N.E. Portland and I know you are supposed to hate everything Laker, but I think my love for the game supersedes my hate for LA. Keep this to yourself, but because of my career path about 10 years ago I was able to meet Shaq, Kobe and Rodman actually. Kobe was pretty down to earth and a nice guy. I just hope all of you guys who have said on here that they plan on NOT watching the NBA Finals because of the Lakers involvement change your minds. I think there will be some great ball being played.

meru · 06-04-2008, 10:19 AM

I hear what you're saying, but I am unable to separate my feelings for a player as a person from their basketball playing. Can't do it. That cuts both ways: I hated Shaq's game when he came into the league, so I hated him. But the more I hear about him (stories about him tipping everybody generously, his general clowning around) the less I can hate him as a person, and now it actually pains me to see how he can't play the way I used to hate him playing anymore.

Kobe I hated because of his obvious sense of entitlement (demanding that Charlotte trade the pick, waving Karl Malone away when he set Kobe a pick in Bryant's first All-Star game, that kind of thing), and the more I find out about his personal life, the more I feel vindicated. Sure he can put on a good front - he's a very smart person, and he's been well-coached in PR. But there's something missing. It's almost like he's a Ted Bundy (who could also be incredibly charming)-esque sociopath.

Of course that's too strong (as far as I know, he hasn't actually gone on a cross country murder spree), but I hate to think what he'll do when he's too old for basketball. It's all he's programmed for.

kflo · 06-04-2008, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meru

I hear what you're saying, but I am unable to separate my feelings for a player as a person from their basketball playing. Can't do it. That cuts both ways: I hated Shaq's game when he came into the league, so I hated him. But the more I hear about him (stories about him tipping everybody generously, his general clowning around) the less I can hate him as a person, and now it actually pains me to see how he can't play the way I used to hate him playing anymore.

Kobe I hated because of his obvious sense of entitlement (demanding that Charlotte trade the pick, waving Karl Malone away when he set Kobe a pick in Bryant's first All-Star game, that kind of thing), and the more I find out about his personal life, the more I feel vindicated. Sure he can put on a good front - he's a very smart person, and he's been well-coached in PR. But there's something missing. It's almost like he's a Ted Bundy (who could also be incredibly charming)-esque sociopath.

Of course that's too strong (as far as I know, he hasn't actually gone on a cross country murder spree), but I hate to think what he'll do when he's too old for basketball. It's all he's programmed for.

presuming we know alot about these guys personally is always a silly idea. john elway demanded to not play for the team that drafted him. waving away a pick when he was a teenager? seriously. you don't know kobe. you don't know brandon. you don't know greg. you have little bits and pieces. you can like or not like these guys based on what they put forward. but don't presume to know too much.

meru · 06-04-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kflo

presuming we know alot about these guys personally is always a silly idea. john elway demanded to not play for the team that drafted him. waving away a pick when he was a teenager? seriously. you don't know kobe. you don't know brandon. you don't know greg. you have little bits and pieces. you can like or not like these guys based on what they put forward. but don't presume to know too much.

Who says I am? You're making two quite different points.
1. That it's forgivable for a teenager to wave off a pick FROM A HALL-OF-FAMER in an All-Star game. Why? Because he's a teenager? No. Most teens would be in awe. Even Jordan would have had enough respect not to do that. Kobe has been brainwashed by his father (who always whined that he wasn't given enough respect - despite the fact that he was playing behind Dr. J) to think he's God's gift.
2. That I don't know enough to make a judgment. Does that mean I'm not allowed to have any feelings about a player or a person unless I know EVERYTHING about them? And besides, what people "put forward" is under their control. I don't think Bryant intended to put forward the bad stuff.
I agree that people hate Rasheed Wallace for the wrong reasons (except mediocre man, if his story is true), but that's precisely because he doesn't give a crap about PR. Kobe, on the other hand, clearly does - he has a very careful public image.

I think people who claim that they just like or dislike a player "for their game" are fooling themselves. You can't separate your feelings like that. I know that Bryant is a great basketball player, so I can separate the fact of his skill from his failings as a human being, but I don't think feelings work the same way.

(And if you could just control your feelings, specifically about sports, then clearly the rational thing to do would just be to love whatever team was winning. As a Blazers fan, following them has caused me immense pain, when it would have been so much more pleasurable just to be a Bulls-then-Lakers fan.)

DaRizzle · 06-04-2008, 10:56 AM

I think Im the only Laker fan that hangs here, all others have been chased off(rightfully so)

I was gonna say 4 until the second half of it
I was gonna say 3 until the second part of it

So I say 3.5-
Kobe of course has been an ***-hole throughout the years. I think with him that it is just part of the package. He wouldnt be as good as he is without the arrogance. Im a firm believer that Kobe is only an ***-hole and not a rapist or any other type of criminal.
That said, I would trade him in a second if it made the Lakers better, I just dont think that is possible right now. Sure Lebron is amazing but 1) I dont think he is as good and most importantly 2) He doesnt know the system.
Kobe doesnt seem as much of a Laker as say Magic or Kareem. Those guys WERE the Lakers and we were going wherever it took us come hell or high water. Kobe is a dude getting paid lots of money to be a Laker. He wants to be a "Laker for life" as long as we win it all every year and he is the top paid athlete in the NBA.

Kobe is flippin amazing I cheer him on every play. Me and my friend actually made up a word since the natural english language cant describe his greatness (Jeekus)!

I cheer for the Lakers...Kobe is on the Lakers

DaRizzle · 06-04-2008, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meru

1. That it's forgivable for a teenager to wave off a pick FROM A HALL-OF-FAMER in an All-Star game. Why? Because he's a teenager? No. Most teens would be in awe. Even Jordan would have had enough respect not to do that.

Thats what makes Kobe great...honestly. Some people can be a amazing and come off normal in real life. Not Kobe. He is the MAN on the court and he wants to let you know every second of every day.

He would not be great without the ***** attitude...

kflo · 06-04-2008, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meru

Who says I am? You're making two quite different points.

you're saying you are. you presume to know that kobe was brainwashed by his father to think he's god's gift. you presume to know way more than you really do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meru

1. That it's forgivable for a teenager to wave off a pick FROM A HALL-OF-FAMER in an All-Star game. Why? Because he's a teenager? No. Most teens would be in awe. Even Jordan would have had enough respect not to do that. Kobe has been brainwashed by his father (who always whined that he wasn't given enough respect - despite the fact that he was playing behind Dr. J) to think he's God's gift.

are you saying a single play from a teenager in an all-star game is unforgivable? karl malone seemed to forgive him. but to you it's unforgivable? that's actually pretty funny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meru

2. That I don't know enough to make a judgment. Does that mean I'm not allowed to have any feelings about a player or a person unless I know EVERYTHING about them? And besides, what people "put forward" is under their control. I don't think Bryant intended to put forward the bad stuff.
I agree that people hate Rasheed Wallace for the wrong reasons (except mediocre man, if his story is true), but that's precisely because he doesn't give a crap about PR. Kobe, on the other hand, clearly does - he has a very careful public image.

i clearly said you have every right to not like a player based on what they put in front of you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meru

I think people who claim that they just like or dislike a player "for their game" are fooling themselves. You can't separate your feelings like that. I know that Bryant is a great basketball player, so I can separate the fact of his skill from his failings as a human being, but I don't think feelings work the same way.

and here's the problem. you presume to know alot about his failings as a human being. about what he was taught by his father.

LameR · 06-04-2008, 04:22 PM

Pretty much agree with HCP. He's ridiculously talented, and I love his attitude, even if it pisses some people off. He wants to win, period.

meru · 06-04-2008, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LameR

Pretty much agree with HCP. He's ridiculously talented, and I love his attitude, even if it pisses some people off. He wants to win, period.

Both of you are avoiding my scale. I want a number!

meru · 06-04-2008, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kflo

you're saying you are. you presume to know that kobe was brainwashed by his father to think he's god's gift. you presume to know way more than you really do.

You're presuming to know what I know. For all YOU know, I have a team of private detectives that follow Bryant around. Wat

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