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MrJayremmie · 07-11-2008, 04:25 PM

idk. the facts kinda point that he is a cancer who makes his team worse.

Our team got rid of him and got better, NY got him and got worse (i think? Maybe they got a little better, im not sure, but they stunk it up either way).

Tortimer · 07-11-2008, 04:29 PM

I don't think Zbo is a bad guy or a cancer in the locker room but I couldn't stand his defense. I watched games where he wouldn't run back on defense 5 possessions in a row. He stood there are argued with the ref will the Blazers played 5 on 4. I would have no use for him on my team and would dump him for anything.

BLAZER PROPHET · 07-11-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldmangrouch

Wow.

The animosity towards Zach is really sad.

Why? He's a pig- both on & off the court. His 365 days per year hotel room where women are abused, his thug posse intimidating and beating up people, his near pure selfishness on the court.......

I'm not inclined to flower his name with love.

Utherhimo · 07-11-2008, 04:34 PM

Zbo and Maggetteee ohhh yeah :P

Ed O · 07-11-2008, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e_blazer1

Value is whatever you can actually get for a player, not what we fans may think the player is worth.

That's true, but GMs make mistakes, right?

Do you think that Telfair was really worth a mid-lottery pick? For the Celtics... they clearly overpaid. They made a mistake.

From the Blazers' perspective, Telfair was worth that, but not from the Celtics'.

Ed O.

**Minstrel** · 07-11-2008, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrJayremmie

Our team got rid of him and got better,

I think Roy and Aldridge improving and playing more had a lot to do with that. Aldridge, at this point, is at least as good as Randolph. He wasn't in his rookie season and missed a lot of the season.

andalusian · 07-11-2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed O

That's true, but GMs make mistakes, right?

Do you think that Telfair was really worth a mid-lottery pick? For the Celtics... they clearly overpaid. They made a mistake.

From the Blazers' perspective, Telfair was worth that, but not from the Celtics'.

The Celtics got to ship Raef for Ratliff's shorter contract as part of Bassy's trade. This, in turn, allowed them to include him with Al Jeff in the KG trade. This proved to be good enough for a ring.

I would say the Celts got more than their money's worth when they traded for Bassy.

Ed O · 07-11-2008, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Roy

It's not in this case. If the Knicks want to make that run at LeBron, they better unload Randolphs horrid contract. Obviously, no one's ponying up anything more than capspace, so they should just accept.

You're operating under a couple of false premises, IMO.

First of all, you're claiming that Zach's contract is horrid. It is CLEARLY not. Raef's contract has been horrid. Francis's was horrid. Those guys can barely play in the NBA now, and yet they're making similar money to what Zach, who's a borderline 20/10 guy, does.

Secondly, Zach's contract actually gets MORE appealing as it gets shorter. Even if he doesn't have a year as good as he had this past one, as long as he can still contribute to a team the worst aspect of his contract (its length) will be ameliorated.

Finally, the Knicks don't need to make a move NOW. They have a couple of years, if they so choose, to prepare for a run at LeBron, and dumping one of their best players for cap space the first chance they get probably doesn't make much sense.

Ed O.

Ed O · 07-11-2008, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andalusian

The Celtics got to ship Raef for Ratliff's shorter contract as part of Bassy's trade. This, in turn, allowed them to include him with Al Jeff in the KG trade. This proved to be good enough for a ring.

I would say the Celts got more than their money's worth when they traded for Bassy.

So you're arguing that the horrible trade where they gave up the rights to get a future All-star in Brandon Roy (assuming they were astute enough to make the Foy move) is the REASON that they won the championship?

Man. That's like arguing that Webster was a good pick over Paul and Williams because we have Oden now.

Oh, wait. People make that argument, too.

Ed O.

andalusian · 07-11-2008, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed O

So you're arguing that the horrible trade where they gave up the rights to get a future All-star in Brandon Roy (assuming they were astute enough to make the Foy move) is the REASON that they won the championship?

Well, they made the trade because they did not think they could get Rondo where he fell to them and needed a PG to rebuild. The trade was not that bad for them because they did get to either cut salary quickly or make a good trade because of the expiring contract of Ratliff.

Sometimes, a single trade should not be judged as a single trade - but in the entire context of what it does for the team's ability to rebuild/change their fortunes.

The same can be said for several of Portland's trades, including the "lopsided" talent fleecing of sending Randolph for a malcontent Francis that was cut, a trade exception and a salary filler in Frye.

It was clear that Ainge was willing to give value (the #7 pick, turned into Randy Foye) for money and talent, and he was smart enough to take advantage of this money saving (Ratliff) in a subsequent trade.

The Webster instead of Deron/CP3 decision had nothing to do with getting Oden other than getting more ping-pong balls, so a lot of luck was in there. The chain of events in the Celtics situation is far more deterministic than that - and if you can not follow it - the problem is not with me or my suggestion...

You can judge a single trade in vacuum all you want - but there was more at play here and Ainge either had a grand pland or made lemonade from lemons with it - either way, he salvaged the situation and got a good return for his money.

MrJayremmie · 07-11-2008, 05:08 PM

lol, everyone in the main forum agrees that the Knicks are just stupid.

Cap space for Randolph would be an awesome trade (for NY).

Quote:

I think Roy and Aldridge improving and playing more had a lot to do with that. Aldridge, at this point, is at least as good as Randolph. He wasn't in his rookie season and missed a lot of the season.

yep, there is always variables. You can never get a good read on that. But if we are trying to look for some proof of Zach making his team/teammates worse, i guess that is the one thing you can go on. That and maybe the stats of teammates? idk.

I know that NY fans were thrilled with the trade when it happened, and now they absolutely despise Randolph.

e_blazer1 · 07-11-2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed O

That's true, but GMs make mistakes, right?

Do you think that Telfair was really worth a mid-lottery pick? For the Celtics... they clearly overpaid. They made a mistake.

From the Blazers' perspective, Telfair was worth that, but not from the Celtics'.

Ed O.

Sure, GMs make mistakes, but absent any information that would indicate that Zach was held in higher value by other teams than what the Knicks actually offered, what basis is there to assume that a mistake was made? Certainly the Clippers' current offer would seem to indicate that they still don't think there's much value around the league associated with Zach's services.

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