WMUDan

We've been debating this on my home board, so I figured I'd come to the pros for an answer. Memhet Okur is the reason this has come up. After Campbell is sent to the bobcats the Stones will be approx 13m under the cap.

The only things I've found in regard to the issue in the CBA are:

Article XI of the CBA:

(f) After exercising its Right of First Refusal as described in this Section 6, the ROFR Team may not trade the Restricted Free Agent for one (1) year, without the player’s consent. Even with the player’s consent, for one (1) year, neither the ROFR Team exercising its Right of First Refusal nor any other Team may trade the player to the Team whose Offer Sheet was matched.

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(l) There may be no consideration of any kind given by one Team to another Team in exchange for a Team’s decision to exercise or not to exercise its Right of First Refusal, or in exchange for a Team’s decision to submit or not to submit an Offer Sheet to a Restricted Free Agent.

Storyteller

I'm not aware of any restriction against doing a sign-and-trade with a restricted FA. The two sections of the CBA that you quote have to do with a team matching an offer sheet from another team. Essentially, they say:

1) If a team matches an offer sheet for a RFA, then they can't trade him for one year without the player's consent (and can't trade him to the team that originally signed him to the offer sheet for a year even with the player's consent).

2) A team who signs a RFA to an offer sheet cannot send compensation (ie, money, draft picks, etc.) to try to convince his team not to match the offer.


So, as far as I know, you can sign-and-trade a RFA. However, in Okur's case it doesn't make much sense. Even after losing Campbell, the Pistons will probably only be able to afford to sign Okur using the Early Bird exception, which is the same amount as the MLE. (The only way I could see them being able to have more cap room than this is if Rasheed leaves for another team).

Most teams would probably prefer to simply sign Okur using their MLE for $5 million than trade players and/or draft picks to get him in a sign-and-trade for the exact same $5 million contract.

The other issue at play is that if Okur signs a contract larger than $1.33 million, he becomes a Base Year Compensation player, and the Pistons can only take back half of his new contract in a trade. That means they'd have to sign-and-trade him to a team that either had cap space (Utah, Denver, Atlanta, etc.) or to a team that had a sizable trade exception (Houston, Sacramento, etc.)

WMUDan

Thanks So Cal,

I'm assuming the stones resind the rights to Sheed and all their other FAs, hence where I came up with the 13M #. My theory is that Sheed and Memo may be able to split that.

Storyteller

Hamilton - $7.25 million
B Wallace - $6.00 million
Williamson - $5.50 million
Billups - $5.46 million
Milicic - $3.87 million
Prince - $1.04 million
Rights to Delfino - $0.75 million

That's $29.87 million for 7 players. Add 4 cap holds of $385,277 each for having less than 11 players, and they're up to $31.4 million.

This year's cap was $43.84 million. It will probably not go up this summer, and I am of the camp that it will probably fall a bit. But even if it stayed the same, that leaves $12.4 million for Rasheed and Okur. Is that enough for both of them?

If they could sign Sheed for $7 million, they'd have $5.8 million for Okur (since one of the cap holds would drop off). So if Sheed drops to that level, then it could probably be done. If he insists on $8 million or more, than probably not.

Recognize, of course, that if they approach it this way, Detroit loses its MLE and Million Dollar Exception.

WMUDan

SoCal thats the exact senerio I envision. I had forgot about the cap holds though. I think its possible, Detroit can offer more $ than NY for Sheed and still have enough money to match any contract in the MLE level for Memo. That leaves the pistons 9 deep. They can pick up pieces off the trash heap from there.

Again thank you.

WMUDan

Can anyone find an example of RFA being involved in a sign-and-trade?

RR 823

So Cal, aren't unrenounced free agents also included on the roster? According to Larry Coon's FAQ all contracted players, unrenounced free agents, and unsigned draft picks are included when determining whether a team need cap holds. In Detroit's case both Okur and Wallace, as well as three other players are unrenounced free agents, meaning that Detroit don't need cap holds.

of course i could entirely be wrong and confused.

Storyteller

No, you are right. On July 1, the Pistons will have a team salary (according to my figures) of about $57.4 million, including FA's Wallace, Okur, Hunter, Ham, Fowlkes and James who will all count against the cap until they are renounced or are signed to a new contract. (I'm talking about player salaries only - this doesn't include an MLE or a Million Dollar Exception)

However, my discussion with WMUDan was predicated on his scenario of: