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Old 11-09-2012, 02:39 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Predict the 10 Best Players in the World in 2018

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Originally Posted by Nimreitz View Post
No doubt. Even bigger legend in Argentina than Scholes in England. What he did with Villarreal is pretty remarkable considering how bad the rest of the team was, although sadly his penalty was saved in the Semi Final against Arsenal. I think his story would be a lot different if van Gaal wasn't the manager when he got to Barca.
But that's exactly the point, he was only ever a superstar at Villareal (who you admit were a bad side) and even then, he never managed to get them to any silverware. You don't get into the upper echelons of the football elite when the Intertoto cup is your greatest ever accolade. He was only relevant over a 4 year span while playing for a mediocre team that never won anything.

You're way off with this argument.

In fact, I'm not even sure Riquelme would crack my Top 3 Argentina list over that span. Batistuta, Messi and even Crespo are all arguably ahead of him.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:49 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Predict the 10 Best Players in the World in 2018

Well, I was just talking about "playmakers". And Riquelme was a HUGE legend and superstar at Villarreal. The dude scored 27 goals in La Liga in a 2 year span and took them to the CL Semis. It was a team of nobodies.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:59 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Predict the 10 Best Players in the World in 2018

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Well, I was just talking about "playmakers". And Riquelme was a HUGE legend and superstar at Villarreal. The dude scored 27 goals in La Liga in a 2 year span and took them to the CL Semis. It was a team of nobodies.
Doing stuff at Villareal isn't what legends do.

Paul Scholes scored 23 (34 in all competitions) in the Premier League in a 2 year span around the same time. In fact, domestically he's scored 107 goals in 491 games. All of this for one of the best teams over the last 20 years in the world.

He won the Premier League (10): 1995–96, 1996–97, 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2010–11, FA Cup (3): 1995–96, 1998–99, 2003–04, Football League Cup (2): 2008–09, 2009–10, FA Community Shield (5): 1996, 1997, 2003, 2008, 2010, UEFA Champions League (2):1998–99, 2007–08, Intercontinental Cup (1): 1999, FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008

Oh and here is the Xavi quote in a bit more depth -

Quote:
February 2011, Barcelona midfielder Xavi rated Scholes as the best player in his position in the past two decades, stating "A role model. For me, and I really mean this, he's the best central midfielder I've seen in the last 15, 20 years. He's spectacular, he has it all, the last pass, goals, he's strong, he doesn't lose the ball, vision. If he'd been Spanish he might have been rated more highly. Players love him." This sentiment was echoed by Barcelona manager, Josep Guardiola, who considered Scholes to be the best midfielder of his generation
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:15 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Predict the 10 Best Players in the World in 2018

And I disagree with them as do most people.

Riquelme is a loyal guy. He got bought by Barcelona, but unfortunately for him it was the same time they brought back van Gaal, and so he got treated like shit and was forced out. He then spent 3.5 years at Villarreal before going back to Boca Juniors. The year before he got there, Villarreal were 15th. Next year they were 8th, then 3rd, then CL Semi Finalists. And he exited the next winter back to Boca. The team was shit when he got there, but he helped create a lasting (for Villarreal) legacy with the money and fame he brought to the club and they could bring in players like Cani, Giuseppe Rossi, Diego Lopez, Diego Godin, Nihat, and Joan Capdevila that cemented Villarreal's place in the top half of Spain until they were hilariously relegated last season. Until Riquelme took them to the promised land they were a seller's club, but then they became a buyer's club, coincidentally the year they bought all those guys I listed.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:27 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Predict the 10 Best Players in the World in 2018

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Originally Posted by Nimreitz View Post
And I disagree with them as do most people.
Opinion or fact?

Quote:
Riquelme is a loyal guy. He got bought by Barcelona, but unfortunately for him it was the same time they brought back van Gaal, and so he got treated like shit and was forced out. He then spent 3.5 years at Villarreal before going back to Boca Juniors. The year before he got there, Villarreal were 15th. Next year they were 8th, then 3rd, then CL Semi Finalists. And he exited the next winter back to Boca. The team was shit when he got there, but he helped create a lasting (for Villarreal) legacy with the money and fame he brought to the club and they could bring in players like Cani, Giuseppe Rossi, Diego Lopez, Diego Godin, Nihat, and Joan Capdevila that cemented Villarreal's place in the top half of Spain until they were hilariously relegated last season. Until Riquelme took them to the promised land they were a seller's club, but then they became a buyer's club, coincidentally the year they bought all those guys I listed.
So his greatest achievement was getting mediocre team to 3rd place (in a league with only 2 powerhouse teams) and a semi-final so he's a Top 5 player of the decade(s)? (not to mention, he only took them to 7th place in La Liga the year they lost against Arsenal)

He helped create a lasting legacy?

You're a lost cause if you actually believe some of this crap.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:35 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Predict the 10 Best Players in the World in 2018

You are totally full of shit if you don't think Riquelme was one of the best playmakers of his generation. Your homerism over Scholes is equally laughable. Riquelme was voted the greatest player in Villarreal's history and would likely take that honor for Boca too. The fact that he could do ANYTHING in a major league is remarkable, but to be so incredible speaks to his incredible talent. He is slow as shit, short, and fat. He doesn't defend at all and kiiinda doesn't even value possession all that much. He's a classic #10 that should have played in 1963. And yet here he is.

And about how no one else agrees with Xavi's ridiculous platitudes. As best as I can tell, Paul Scholes never got a single vote for the Ballon d'Or in any year. Just looking at 2001 I see Ebbe Sand and Emmanuel Olisadebe with votes. Damiano Tommasi has a couple, but no Scholes. And this is the guy that is a consensus great player? According to just me? No, according to everybody except the English and evidently the cult of tiki-taka. I'm not trying to hate on him, I THINK HE'S REALLY GOOD(!!), but he is not the English Maradona or whatever other revisionist bullshit you lot are trying to push these days.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:01 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Predict the 10 Best Players in the World in 2018

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Originally Posted by Nimreitz View Post
You are totally full of shit if you don't think Riquelme was one of the best playmakers of his generation. Your homerism over Scholes is equally laughable. Riquelme was voted the greatest player in Villarreal's history and would likely take that honor for Boca too. The fact that he could do ANYTHING in a major league is remarkable, but to be so incredible speaks to his incredible talent. He is slow as shit, short, and fat. He doesn't defend at all and kiiinda doesn't even value possession all that much. He's a classic #10 that should have played in 1963. And yet here he is.

And about how no one else agrees with Xavi's ridiculous platitudes. As best as I can tell, Paul Scholes never got a single vote for the Ballon d'Or in any year. Just looking at 2001 I see Ebbe Sand and Emmanuel Olisadebe with votes. Damiano Tommasi has a couple, but no Scholes. And this is the guy that is a consensus great player? According to just me? No, according to everybody except the English and evidently the cult of tiki-taka. I'm not trying to hate on him, I THINK HE'S REALLY GOOD(!!), but he is not the English Maradona or whatever other revisionist bullshit you lot are trying to push these days.
Sometimes I wonder if you're trying to argue for me or against me.

The Ballon d'Or is a worthless award and is widely regarded as such. Oliver Kahn, Eric Cantona, Raul, Shearer, Henry, Bergkamp, Maldini all never won the award. What do most of them have in common? They're reserved. They play football. They don't front adverts.

Some players transcend these types of awards, one of those players is Paul Scholes, his style of play has only really become accepted as the best way since Barcelona put Iniesta and Xavi together and went on to dominate the world with it. I'll take the opinions of some of the best footballing minds in the game over an award every day of the week.

No revisionist bullshit going on here at all, Paul Scholes is a better footballer than Riquelme and will be regarded as such for a very long time.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:21 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Predict the 10 Best Players in the World in 2018

I disagree and they are already writing books about Riquelme and his enigmatic genius and what it represents. The last enganche. All those guys you mentioned never won it, but sure as hell have got votes.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:37 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Predict the 10 Best Players in the World in 2018

Paul Scholes not having a vote is a travesty and you know it, so using it as your argument is redundant to me.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Paul Scholes is already and will continue to be considered the best English footballer of his generation, regardless if Michael Owen won a Ballon d'Or, regardless of Beckham placing 2nd in 1999...

Scholes has been doing his thing at the top of the worlds pedestal for 20 years, Riquelme merely sat beside him for a couple of those...
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:44 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Predict the 10 Best Players in the World in 2018

Riquelme just did it in South America. But I agree Scholes is better than Beckham and Owen for sure. Him never getting a single vote is more about you saying "no one thinks he is great? how dare you say that! everyone thinks he's the best player of all time!"
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:00 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Predict the 10 Best Players in the World in 2018

On a pure technical level and at their highest peak Riquelme might have edged it, but of course that's debatable. What isn't debatable is their careers, Scholes has played at a consistently high level for almost two decades. Riquelme had that short period for Villareal where he was great but not a world player of the year great. If I had to make a decision regarding which player I would have, it would be Scholes and not because of my United bias. You have to build a team conducive to Riquelme's strengths or he's quite useless as shown with his time at Barcelona. You can pretty much stick Scholes in any team, country, style, and I have no doubt he would succeed. On a pure play making level yes Riquelme was better, but Scholes has never been a number 10 in the traditional sense, there were times in his younger days when SAF played him behind the striker but he was more of an attacking midfielder than an orchestrator.

I do like Riquelme but I think people tend to overrate him a bit due to the fact that he was essentially the last pure number 10.

Also I think we can all agree that the Ballon D'or is a joke most of the time, and as PP already stated when someone like Beckham can be more nominated and get more votes while essentially being the least good player on a United side then its lost a ton of credibility.

I'd rather measure Scholes's ability and true worth to the game through recognition. These are just some of the quotes from fellow players and managers:

Cesc Fabregas : "He is the one whose level I aspire to. He is the best player in the Premier League."

Patrick Vieira : "The player in the Premiership I admire most? Easy - Scholes."

Thierry Henry : "I can't understand why Scholes has never won the player of the year award. He should have won it long ago. Maybe it's because he doesn't seek the limelight like some of the other 'stars'."

Zinedine Zidane : "My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder."

Zinedine Zidane : "Scholes is undoubtedly the best midfielder of his generation."

Alan Shearer : "If you ask footballers to pick out the player they most admire, so many of them will pick Paul Scholes. He can tackle, and his passing and shooting is of the highest level. Hes the most consistent and naturally gifted player weve had for a long, long time."

Eidur Gudjohnsen : "I'm more an admirer of Paul Scholes than I am of Ronaldo. Ronaldo is a fantastic player, but he has 10 other great players around him every week...Scholes is one of the most complete footballers I've ever seen. His one-touch play is phenomenal. Whenever I have played against him, I never felt I could get close to him."

Edgar Davids : ""Every one of us (midfielders) is just trying to become as good as him. Everyone can learn from Paul Scholes."

Edgar Davids : "I'm not the best, Paul Scholes is."

Tony Adams : "I really rate Paul Scholes, because he hasn't got the high profile of many of the Manchester United players, he doesn't get too much attention, but he is one very good player. He is an intelligent player, he works hard and he scores some great goals. He is not flamboyant and is a quiet lad off the pitch but he is a tremendous asset to Manchester United and to England. He has already got my vote as player of the year."

Sam Allardyce : "There is not a better midfield player in the world."

Kevin Keegan : "What United have got that Chelsea haven't is Paul Scholes. I think he is different to anything else in English football."

Micah Richards : "He's always in the right position, always seems to be at the end of the box when the ball drops in. The complete midfielder - when he's fit, he's the best. Some go missing but he's in the right place at the right time. He's my favourite player of all-time, unbelievable. If you give him a chance it's a goal, isn't it?"

Glenn Hoddle : "There isnt a player of his mould anywhere else in the world."

Terry Venables : "Hes the best one- or two-touch passer in the country. He sees the game unlike any other player."

Marcello Lippi : "Paul Scholes would have been one of my first choices for putting together a great team - that goes to show how highly I have always rated him. Scholes is a player I have always liked, because he combines great talent and technical ability with mobility, determination and a superb shot. He is an all-round midfielder who possesses character and quality in abundance. In my opinion, he's been one of the most important players for United under Sir Alex."

Ray Wilkins : "I'm saddened because I think we as spectators, not only in this country but right through out Europe and the rest of the World, will be missing one hell of a footballer."

Gordon Strachan : "Paul Scholes has been the best England midfield player for 30-odd years. You'd probably have to go back to Bobby Charlton to find someone who could do as much as Scholes. When the ball arrives at his feet he could tell you where every player on that pitch is at that moment. His awareness is superb."

Veron while at Chelsea being asked in an interview who's the best english player : "Paul Scholes."

Peter Schmeichel : "People say he is a great player, but you have to define what a great player is, For me, it is a player who has a bottom level that means his worst performance is not noticed.If he is having a bad game, a team-mate might feel Paul Scholes is not quite on his game, but a spectator wouldn't notice. Scholes, of all the players I have played with, has the highest bottom level. His reading of the game is unsurpassed.He has an eye for a pass, for what the play or the game needs at that precise moment, that I have never seen anyone else have. He controls and distributes the play and the game better than anyone I have ever seen."

Peter Schmeichel : "Still the best player in that United midfield."

Laurent Blanc : "Scholes is the best English player. Intelligence, technique, strength... all the attributes are there. At Manchester United I saw what he could do on the training field. Phew!"

Michael Carrick : "Paul Scholes is just fantastic. When you play alongside him, you realise what a special talent he is."

Michael Carrick : "He is a legend and he's going to be remembered for a long time. Just to play alongside him and learn from him has been an absolute pleasure. I think he is a footballer's footballer; he has been at this level for so long. As long as he is part of us we always feel we have a chance. We appreciate the way he goes about his business. I have never met a character like Scholesy; certainly not someone who is that good."

Park Ji Sung when asked by the clubs official home page which United player he would like to see in the red shirt of the Taeguk Warriors : It has to be Paul Scholes.

David Beckham said that, among his teammates at Real Madrid, which included Zinedine Zidane, Ral, Ronaldo, Lus Figo and Roberto Carlos, Scholes was the most admired opponent : "He's always one of those people others talk about. Even playing at Real Madrid, the players always say to me 'what's he like'? They respect him as a footballer, and to have that respect from some of those players is great."

Brian Kidd : "Paul Scholes had the best football brain I'd ever seen in a kid. Let's face it. Paul Scholes is in a class of its own."

Rio Ferdinand : "I can honestly say Paul is the best player in the England squad. For me he is the complete player."

Rio Ferdinand : "For me, it's Paul Scholes. He'll do ridiculous things in training like say, "You see that tree over there?" - it'll be 40 yards away - "I'm going to hit it". And he'll do it. Everyone at the club considers him the best."

Phil Neville : "Paul, for me, is the best player in the England team. It worries teams. Speak to any other international team and they will single Paul out as England's key player. For me, he doesn't get the full credit that he deserves. He is a world-class player and deserves to be up there with the likes of Zidane and Figo."

Gary Neville : "Paul Scholes is the best player I've ever played with. There's talent in every part of his game."

Steve Bruce : "He's the best player in Britain in my opinion and he has to get himself fit just before we are due to play at Old Trafford. I cannot pay Paul a bigger compliment than to say that he's the most complete footballer in the country. The best bar none."

Roy Keane : "An amazingly gifted player who remained an unaffected human being."

George Best : "To be honest I think England have lost their best player. Certainly he's the most consistent and naturally gifted player we've had for a long, long time."

Sir Bobby Charlton : "I am sorry for England because they don't have any player like him. You can talk about others but there is no one else like him. He is the best technical player England has without any question. He could have had a lot more caps if he had carried on. And if I was the manager he would have ended up with more than I did easy"

Sir Bobby Charlton : "Hes always so in control and pinpoint accurate with his passing a beautiful player to watch."

Sir Bobby Charlton : "Paul Scholes is my favourite player. He epitomises the spirit of Manchester United and everything that is good about football."

Sir Alex Ferguson : "Very few players can do that, but Scholes is one of them - and I knew he was one of them. That's why, without question, I think Paul Scholes is the best player in England. He's got the best skills, the best brain. No one can match him."
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Old 09-28-2013, 09:14 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Predict the 10 Best Players in the World in 2018

Same premise as before, but now it's 5 years out instead of 6 years out. My list has slightly changed.

1. Oscar
2. Ozil
3. Pogba
4. Varane
5. Gundogan
6. Isco
7. Lukaku
8. Kroos
9. Reus
10. Lewandowski

I think Oscar is going to be just about the perfect #10 and it's going to be generally understood much sooner than people think. I believe it could be the end result of the 2014 World Cup.

Not sure why I didn't have Ozil on my previous list, but all the recent publicity around him has reaffirmed in my mind how good I think he is. Pogba and Gundogan should be self explanitory, they are well on their way. Varane looks to be the future of great defenders with no one else really on his level at his age. Isco is going to be the focal point for a Real Madrid team that features Ronaldo and Bale. Lukaku is just a ****ing beast. Kroos and Reus were on my list last time. Lewandowski is already arguably the best striker in the world (discounting Messi), but I can easily see Lukaku surpassing him.

Guys I dropped: Neymar, just don't think he'll live up to the hype. Thiago I'm just not buying into as a Bayern fan and I think he weakens the team when he's in the lineup. He has so many great skills, but I don't know if he's the total package as a player. James is just in a bad place to showcase his brilliance at Monaco overshadowed by even bigger stars like Falcao. Mkhitaryan will be great, but not at this lofty level (I mean, I even had to leave off Gotze). Messi is fading already, I think 2014 is his last chance to shine at the legendary level on the biggest stage.
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:23 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Predict the 10 Best Players in the World in 2018

Alvaro Morata should be on your list.

Otherwise, it's pretty solid, but could do with Wilshere/Ramsey breaking through and repping GB.
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Old 09-29-2013, 06:53 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Predict the 10 Best Players in the World in 2018

Gtze number 1, Kroos number 2, Thiago number 3, Lewandowski number 4
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Old 09-29-2013, 08:32 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Predict the 10 Best Players in the World in 2018

Alaba should probably be on there too. Dude is about to hit Roberto Carlos territory now that he's taking all the free kicks and penalties.
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