jdg

I disagree. Ben Wallace started as a hustle player on a bad team, and look at him now. I don't think Sow will get anywhere close to that, but he showed me enough last year to keep him around for cheap and see what happens.

speedythief

I'm not sure that he's trained us so much as most of us have come to accept the way the draft played-out.

I think anyone can complain about us not drafting Gerald Green, but it's not like we were the only ones ignorant enough to let him pass us by. If he was truly the talent everyone assumed he was, why was he drafted in the second half of the first round?

From the looks of it, the most coveted wing player outside of Marvin Williams was Antoine Wright. Go figure. Nobody's telling New Jersey what a gaffe they made by taking him ahead of Green, Granger, Graham. Why not?

Would we have taken Wright? Would us taking Wright have been criticised or lauded?

It's funny how so many people were willing to concede that the difference between the 7th and 17th pick was minimal, yet when the draft played out suddenly some players were huge reaches and some were absolute steals.

Ballyhoo

New Jersey has taken some criticism for Wright, although it's fairly muted. And they are a different team than the Raptors. They already have established major stars on the team and are looking to fill in some roleplayers to make a title run ASAP before Kidd declines. The Raptors are looking to rebuild long term.

Forget the actual picks, the worst mistake Babcock made was failing to trade 7+16 for 3. I'm certain Portland would have preferred 7+16 to 6+27. Unforgivable failure. If we had Chris Paul right now I'd be excited about next season, instead of demoralized.

Rhubarb

Welcome to the site. Always good to hear new opinions.

On the Graham pick, I'm happy with it. I've always been a fan of Joey, so whilst I did reserve some disappointment in leaving Granger out to dry, getting Joey instead is as good a consolation as they come.

Green is an interesting prospect, albeit one that probably doesn't suit this team now. Yes, he has a world of potential, but the odds of him fulfilling that potential and becoming that next T-Mac aren't that much less than Joey reaching his full potential and becoming an Artest-esque player.

Having taken a risky pick with Charlie at 7, I don't think we needed another risky one at 16. What you see with Graham is what you get, and believe me when I say Graham is the real deal.

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Tim Duncan: "People should stop talking about Bosh as a future force. He's already a force, right here and now."

"I don't really look at guys and memorize players, but (Bosh) is very impressive. He can shoot, he has an inside game, physical at times, he's pretty good...he's more than holding his own." - Shaq

"I really like him...to me he's already pretty special," Mavericks star Dirk Nowitzki said after continually getting beat to the basket by Bosh. "He's going to be a great player in this league."

"Chris Bosh really has emerged to be a star in this league. There are more than the top three (in the 2003 draft)." - Dwyane Wade

I love everything about him, I love his game, I love his work ethic. He definitely has my approval - Kobe Bryant"

Rhubarb

The irony of both comments is delicious. Contradictory if ever.

The last thing this team needs is someone who doesn't want to be here. Hardly the way to encourage team chemistry, and the subsequent champion team we should be striving to build together.

I've said it once and I'll say it again; a champion team is greater than a team of champions. Perhaps a good example of this is the recent Greece Olympics and the difference between Team USA and other competing teams like Argentina, and Lithuania.

__________________
Tim Duncan: "People should stop talking about Bosh as a future force. He's already a force, right here and now."

"I don't really look at guys and memorize players, but (Bosh) is very impressive. He can shoot, he has an inside game, physical at times, he's pretty good...he's more than holding his own." - Shaq

"I really like him...to me he's already pretty special," Mavericks star Dirk Nowitzki said after continually getting beat to the basket by Bosh. "He's going to be a great player in this league."

"Chris Bosh really has emerged to be a star in this league. There are more than the top three (in the 2003 draft)." - Dwyane Wade

I love everything about him, I love his game, I love his work ethic. He definitely has my approval - Kobe Bryant"

lucky777s

By that logic Roko Ukic was not nearly the player that we thought he was because everyone from 17 to 40 passed him up. You can't have it both ways. Why would we take Roko when so many teams obviously felt he sucks? That's what you are saying about Green.

Where a guy ends up being drafted is irrelevant. It is not an indication of his talent or potential, but just how each GM views the draft board and his teams plan/needs at that time.

I would have been fine with Graham at 7, although a little disappointed that we didn't look for a homerun with Green or Bynum. Same with Granger or Wright. We have SERIOUS needs on the wing. Two wings in the first round would have been fine with me. Graham/Green would be perfect. One is low risk and immediate impact while other is higher risk but superstar potential.

The idea that the Raps HAD to draft a big man because other teams were going to draft big men is silly. We could have had Taft at 41 and he was a potential lotto pick a month earlier. Almost same stats as Charlie.

Graham/Green/Taft could end up being a far superior draft to what we got.

This draft is all about Charlie. If he doesn't become a star (not a superstar) then Babs screwed up big time. Charlie is going to have to be better than: Diogu, Frye, Bynum, Green, Granger, Wright and even Joey Graham although they are on the same team.

GuelphRaptorsFan

I think most people would generally agree that Graham, Granger and Green were pretty close, so I don't think anybody is particularly upset to have taken Graham at that slot, although I doubt many of us would have chosen Graham from that grouping.

As someone else pointed out, this draft is all about Villaneuva, which was likely true given the success rates of #7 picks versus #16 picks and #41 picks. But ultimately this draft will be judged on the Villaneuva pick, not the Graham pick, the consensus at the moment is that Graham, Granger and Green aren't really that far away from each other.

speedythief

I think the teams that were interested in Green [Boston, for example] suddenly found themselves picking from the best wing players in the draft, reducing the appeal of Ukic. His buy-out situation was also unattractive.

But yes, it could mean that we saw something in Ukic that other teams didn't see or didn't need. I'm not trying to contradict myself.

AirBonner

This draft will not be all about Villinueava if Graham or Ukic become stars.

As for taking 2 wing players, I say take the best player available and thats what Babcock did. Regardless of whether C Nova is actually the best player or not.

SkywalkerAC

Chis Paul for Charlie V and Joey Graham? Sorry, I'm not biting and obviously Babcock wasn't either. Ukic obviously wasn't a given at 41 but we had options in free agency in Jwill and Cook. Paul is going to be a very good player but I'm confident both of our picks will be as well; and yes, two heads are better than one, especially when one is a big man.

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AC

pavle_TO

good call ballyhoo

that's the sharpest dose of reality i've seen

we are worse than we were last year and everyone else has gotten better except the knicks. i too am looking forward to next years draft. the way i see it we have little chance of contending for a playoff spot when you consider where we stand. every team that made the playoffs is good and not faltering and on top of that the magic are alright, cleveland should make it, and milwaukee has a reasonable chance of doing better than us.

the raps best case scenario is to secure a really high draft pick and hope that denver misses teh playoffs and then have 2 lottery picks. oh don't forget to fire babcock while you're at it.

what is really sad about our situation is that we should have made vince happy last year and hired dr j. vince wouldn't have *****ed as much, dr j wouldn't have drafted hoffa and we might have enjoyed some playoff ball.

being a raps fan is frustrating

SkywalkerAC

keep Vince happy and hire Dr J? do you realize where you're posting and do you desire to be crucified? it's not all father and the son and all that you know honestly, to me it seems more than obvious that keeping Vince would have been a horrible move in the long term (and I'm still a big VC fan).

To me, the only alternative picks to Hoffa were Biedrins and Jefferson- sorry but our frontcourt was in the direst of straits. If VC plays hard we end up with the 14th pick or so, as a guess, and draft...who? Warrick? Graham? Wright? Please excuse me while I proclaim that our current team is in MUCH better shape than that potential team.

haha. on top of that you're kidding yourself if you don't think the Knicks didn't improve themselves through the draft.

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AC

drlove_playa

You hit the nail on the head about Sow. We all saw him play some garbage minutes and he hustled a bit and we all wanted him to stay. I think we should let him go, no other team would likely pick him up.

I too am worried about resigning Bonner. I think babs is going to overpay him way too much. $2 million a year is lots for Bonner. He can't play the 3 or the 5.. so all that leaves is the 4. And we already have CB and CV for that.

I also don't think CV can play the 5.. and we all know Bosh doesn't like to play the 5, so we might have a problem. Only if Hoffa would prove everyone wrong and become a descent nba player.. but we all know the difference

pavle_TO

the knicks did alright in the draft but losing nazr and kurt is going to hurt that team seriously.

you have to admit that the team that started last year was way better than the one that's going to start this year.

alston
vince
jalen
donyell
bosh

backed up by milt, peterson, bonner, draft pick

the talent right there is enough for us to have been some kind of fast break team that makes the playoffs. had vince been happy who knows where we would have been.

i also have another bone to pick regarding last years draft. once babcock got hired he knew right away that vince wanted out because they passed dr j. knowing you are going to likely be trading your franchise and most talented player he should have drafted a wing high on talent and potential ala jr smith or igoudala. that way you can trade vince for bigs because we sure as hell can't attract a fa nor draft a quality big.

for the record, i lost my voice booing carter