pavle_TO

i always hear a lot of bashing of charlie and i admit i thought next to andrewvicious (however the hell you spell that) it was the worst pick we could make but now i have warmed up to it

my concern is the graham pick

i see no star potential in his game and that is an issue for a team that is in desperate need of a dominant perimiter player, be it a pg or a wing

him becoming a an artest type impact player is a longshot

this team does in deed have a problem scoring even though everyone says they don't. sure we couldn't stop anyone in crunch time but we couldn't score in the clutch either. we had terrible chemistry and creativity and our offensive sets were a joke.

at the 16 i was taking green all the way. who gives a ---- if he didn;t wanna be here. he'd play and get better and eventually become a star. this team needs an exciting player to energize the city again and make it somewhat attractive for free agents. i would get over the fact that he would not wanna be here and he would too. if he still wants to go , trade him when he develops a bit for a ton. we would have him for four years and he'd still be restricted.

how much do you think graham will be better than someone like peterson?
marginally i'd say. he was never a primary scoring option and never will be and when he is matched physically what then?

i think green was teh guy to take on potential alone.

also, i would have rather had warrick- he boards, is athletic, dunks like a champ, scores a ton inside, and can put up minutes at the four when needed

i'm pretty new to this but let me know what y'all think

Turkish Delight

First of all, welcome to the site! If you have any questions or comments, feel free to ask myself, or anyone of the other mods around here.

Anyways back on topic...

I like the Graham pick. The chances of him developing into a star aren't very high, which is pretty normal for almost anyone who is drafted 16th overall. I'm happy we picked him instead of Green. We don't need another overhyped superstar who doesn't want to be here. I use the term superstar very loosely because it's not even certain that he'll develop into anything close to that type of player. There are a lot of question marks around that kid, which would take a long time to answer. Babcock simply doesn't have 3-4 years to wait on a kid like that. He took a sure thing in Graham, one of the most NBA ready prospects around. He is also one of the most athletic players in the draft, which is definately a good thing. He helps us immensely on the defensive end with his toughness, and I'm sure he'll be able to help us in the rebounding department as well.

I like the pick, and I'm excited to see how he does this season.

SkywalkerAC

No problems with Graham. You don't need a superstar-type wing to win games or even championships, you just need really good players that will fit into the coach's system and play their hearts out. Graham seems to fit. He's got very little downside a whole lot of upside considering that he's a senior.

I liken him to Caron Butler except he's more rugged and more athletic. Sounds good to me.

__________________
AC

AirBonner

I have also had reservations about this pick. I even posted a thread about it before the draft. The consensous at the time seemed to be that the guys available Wright, Graham and Granger were all pretty evenly matched and that the professionals would pic the best player.

Personally I was wondering about Graham because he choked during the ncaa tourny this year. Still, I would take Graham over a premadonna like Green any day because even if he did become a star he wouldn't stay in TO.

Now I am just anxious to see how he performs because I like the fact that he came from a good program and plays good D. I could see him being a player that is even better suited to the NBA than he was to college.

speedythief

Welcome to the site!

Not only did Green not want to be here, supposedly, but he doesn't have an NBA body yet and he's been knocked for his attitude. It's one thing to draft somebody to a team they don't want to play for, but to draft somebody who supposedly doesn't work all that hard in the same situation is dangerous. He might never amount to anything, let alone trade bait. In this situation I think the difference between Graham and Green isn't so monumental that we've clearly made a major blunder. Time will tell.

Graham might not be a star, but he could be a star-stopper. Somebody to stick on the fancy opposing wings and frustrate the hell out of them. He's strong, he's fast, he's mobile and he's athletic. He has the potential to be an all-NBA defender. And coming out of OSU, you know he's got the defensive fundamentals down. Our team isn't really hurting for offense, now or in the near future, so it's nice to have a blue-chip defender on board. Charlie is a great shotblocker, too, and Roko has excellent size for his position, so we've made steps in the right direction as to the defensive end of things.

pavle_TO

i think we are lacking at every position and we are years away from being a good team. i used to be optimistic but now i'm just frustrated. i think it would have been worth it to take the chance on a highschool kid. last year we passed up al jefferson, jr smith, josh smith and they will be impact players even though they have not done anything. if green was picked by us he would have shut up and played. look at it this way, around the league right now, who is more valuable in a trade graham or green? green in a heartbeat.

i like graham and don't get me wrong i am very happy with the draft but i think we should have taken a gamble on highschooler. most of them turn out and green was worth the risk.

i'll laugh all the way to the bank if graham turns out like caron butler. butler has a really solid offensive game- remember his rookie year?

say we forget about green- what about warrick?
i thought he was dominant in college and could bring it in the nba. he would add size and athleticism to the wing and play inside to boot. he could post any 3 and i think in a few years will develop his perimiter game sufficiently to become a stud. plus he liked toronto from the interview i saw with him. i feel that he has more upside and birngs more game right now. he was the go to guy and has put up monster lines in college.

SkywalkerAC

Really? I think we're looking pretty good at every position now that the draft has come and gone.

It hurts to pass on a kid who might be the best dunker since Vince Carter but I think Graham fits the mold a whole lot better- guys that will follow Bosh and Mitchell and take our team to the next level in the process.

__________________
AC

AirBonner

I wouldn't take the risk on Green period. There are a huge number of reasons why he wouldn't pan out in TO. As for trade value, Green has got no value for any team thats not going to be a lottery team or rebuilding where graham could be valueable across the board.

As for Warrick, why take another PF/SF tweener. The raps are already stacked at that spot with Bosh, CV, Sow and Bonner. I would give Graham a much higher chance of being an impact player than Warrick anyway.

SkywalkerAC

I wanted Felton and Warrick with the two picks but I can honestly say I prefer our draft of Charlie and Joey (and Ukic )

__________________
AC

pavle_TO

bosh and cv are not tweeners- both have the size to play the 4 and are too slow to guard the wing- face it bosh would be a better 5 than a 3

as for sow- he is not an nba player in my books- a year in the nbdl or a waive goodbye is in order- let's not kid ourselves, some hustle minutes in garbage time does not constitute a player. the only reason he played was because we were so bad anyway.

bonner gives a good look off the bench but is too clumsy and unathletic to guard nba wings- i love the guy but that's the way it is ( he is unfortunately going to get overpaid killing our chances of adding any valuable fa)

what i like about warrick is verasatility- plays 3 or 4, effective in the open court or in half court sets and i think his size and athleticism alone make him an alright defender

Junkyard Dog13

no problems he will bring much neaded hard nose defence, if he can take over for Rose in 2 years and avg 14/5 that will be great, If Peterson stay's at Sg he will need to escalate his numbers to like 16/5 to remain a starter, or Babs is likely looking at the 2006 draft for a franchise SG like Shannon Brown/JJ Redick/Ronnie Brewer

__________________
Raps fans since Day 1
Steelers fan since 97
Leafs fan since 88
Mets fan since 98

TRON

when the draft came to the 16th pick I was hoping to hear the name Gerald or Danny being called, but couldn't be too upset with Graham

Granger was my pick at #16, but no one could argue with the best overall athlete of the bunch. My concerns rest solely on Grahams ability to play the wing.

Things like handling the ball, creating his own shot, and getting to the rim are question marks concerning his game. However, things like health, maturity and strength/size are things that we don't have to worry about with Joey that we would have to with the other two wings.

Graham has all the physical attributes, so we'll see in the next couple of years if he can develop those much needed SG skills

__________________
"and they aware of us though,
but we don't give a flying 747 **** though,
stayin on my hustle" -Nas

"To be honest, sometimes in this game, telling the truth is the best smokescreen of all." - Raptors GM Bryan Collangelo

AirBonner

Your right Bosh is certainly not a tweener and although CV can supposedly play 3 hes not a tweener either. I had originally wrote 'why take another pf' but then i wanted to mention that warrick was a tweener and i made an editing mistake.

As for my point, i meant to say that the raps have 3 or 4 ppl deep who can play at 4. Warrick is a pf in a sf body, a tweener who doesn't have a good enough shot to be a good 3 man.

seifer0406

Let's see, Green was compared to Tmac, Green is rumored to dislike Toronto. If Green does become a star similar to Tmac, wouldn't he just leave Toronto like how Tmac left Toronto? I don't see the point of drafting this kid if he doesn't want to be in Toronto.

Ballyhoo

You see pavle_TO, Babcock has trained us well. I think after the first 15 picks most would've ranked Graham as their third choice for the 16th pick. However we didn't get someone who was even on the radar for the previous two 1st round picks by Babcock. So when we actually got our 3rd choice instead of another Mr. Fantastic-esque reach, we were dancing in the streets. The fact that yet again we failed to take the best player available is being overlooked by the Babcock apologists.

I share your frustration. Last year at this time I knew the team had flaws, but we had a healthy Vince (physically at least), a developing Bosh, a new coach, and division filled with teams in disarray. I was optimistic and eagerly anticipated the season. Now this year I think our team is significantly downgraded since last year's, meanwhile the rest of the division, other than the Knicks, are much improved. I'm already looking forward to our top 5 pick in the weak 2006 draft. At least there's a bit of talent at the top, although with Babcock we're unlikely to acquire any of that talent.