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**Crossword** · 08-07-2005, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foul_balls

Just curious why everyone thinks Jalen would be a good influence on young guys. Every team he has been on, he has been considered a locker room cancer (this has been widely reported in every city he has been to).

In front of the media, he has always been very eloquent and shown a good political face, but it's a different story behind the scenes apparently.

I don't give a rat's *** what the media perceived him as on other teams, because he's been anything but a cancer on the Raptors. Even when he was benched, he put his money where his mouth is and produced. He's a great guy to have in the locker room, simply because he's a solid veteran presence and isn't going to whine his way out of a tough situation.

jalen5 · 08-07-2005, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air Fly

do you guys still want Rose to be the go-to-guy? I just feel like if him and Rafer are still in the starting lineups next season, Bosh still wont get the touches he wants and wont improve much...

I know that Rose is a great leader but someone should tell him this is not his team anymore, matter of fact its Bosh's team. Plus someone needs to tell Rafer he should stick to his job, and stop trying to be the Man everytime the team is losing...just my thoughts.

I don't agree with much of what you are saying. I went to a game in New Orleans last year when the Raps came to play the Hornets. Jalen shot HARDLY at all and Chris Bosh had a monster game and shot a ton (rightfully so of course). Jalen is not the #1 option or the best player on the team and he both knows that and doesn't play like that.

Another thing, just because a player might be the best player on the team (Bosh in the Raps case) it doesn't mean he is the team's leader or the team is "his." Personally, I don't see Bosh ever being the "leader" of the team or being able to say the team is "his". I just don't see that being in his personality. He is and might always be the best player but that just means he has the best basketball skills. It does not mean he has the best leadership and motivational skills. Jalen does have the leadership and vocal personality necessary to motivate a team. He always has, just look back to his days at Michigan w/ the Fab Five. He ran that team.

foul_balls · 08-07-2005, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budweiser_Boy

I don't give a rat's *** what the media perceived him as on other teams, because he's been anything but a cancer on the Raptors. Even when he was benched, he put his money where his mouth is and produced. He's a great guy to have in the locker room, simply because he's a solid veteran presence and isn't going to whine his way out of a tough situation.

I never said he couldn't produce. Producing and leading are two different things.

As Mitchell said last year, "Everyone in the world knows Jalen can score". Bonzi Wells can produce, Rafer Alston can produce, it doesn't necessarily mean that they can lead a team and be a good influence on young guys. Oakley was a leader here who pushed Carter, and he wasn't the biggest producer.

Jalen complained about coming off the bench last year, so I don't really agree that he is a solid presence.

While it would be sad to lose Jalen's offence, I don't mind getting rid of Jalen since we all know Bosh needs to become the leader of this team so that they can do some playoff damage in a few years, after Jalen's contract is up.

**JRose5** · 08-08-2005, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budweiser_Boy

I don't give a rat's *** what the media perceived him as on other teams, because he's been anything but a cancer on the Raptors. Even when he was benched, he put his money where his mouth is and produced. He's a great guy to have in the locker room, simply because he's a solid veteran presence and isn't going to whine his way out of a tough situation.

Good post, BB.

jalen5 · 08-09-2005, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foul_balls

I never said he couldn't produce. Producing and leading are two different things.

As Mitchell said last year, "Everyone in the world knows Jalen can score". Bonzi Wells can produce, Rafer Alston can produce, it doesn't necessarily mean that they can lead a team and be a good influence on young guys. Oakley was a leader here who pushed Carter, and he wasn't the biggest producer.

Jalen complained about coming off the bench last year, so I don't really agree that he is a solid presence.

While it would be sad to lose Jalen's offence, I don't mind getting rid of Jalen since we all know Bosh needs to become the leader of this team so that they can do some playoff damage in a few years, after Jalen's contract is up.

Again, Bosh is not going to be the LEADER of the team. He has the ability to always be the best player on the team, but that doesn't necessarily mean he will be the leader. I don't think he has it in his personality to be the best LEADER. I don't think he's vocal enough or will be able to inspire his teammates enough to be considered the team's leader or to be able to say the team is "his". He is a very talented player, though.

**speedythief** · 08-09-2005, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalen5

Again, Bosh is not going to be the LEADER of the team. He has the ability to always be the best player on the team, but that doesn't necessarily mean he will be the leader. I don't think he has it in his personality to be the best LEADER. I don't think he's vocal enough or will be able to inspire his teammates enough to be considered the team's leader or to be able to say the team is "his". He is a very talented player, though.

I agree that he doesn't seem to have the forceful, vocal type of personality that some great leaders have. But you can look at guys like Tim Duncan and know that they lead in other ways, specifically by playing well and putting the team on their back under any and all circumstances.

It's one of the reasons I think having Jalen for a couple more years is a good thing. You know you aren't going to get anything past him. You can't win an argument with him. And he's got that intense face. I think Jalen is more of a locker room presence than he's given credit for, and his unapologetic run-in with Alston almost acts as proof of that. I don't think Jalen is an unselfish guy, nor do I think he's somebody that's going to inspire a team all that much, but I think he does serve as an authority figure, and you can get a lot out of somebody like that. Hopefully Mitchell and Rose become close allies and bump heads this upcoming season, the team needs it.

A lot of coaches use the strategy of "hate me, prove me wrong". I think Mitchell might be someone like that. If you play bad, he'll tell you. He's not being unfair, he's just saying things the player would rather not hear. You want him to be nice to you? Do what he says. Or at least try to.

As for Jalen, I assume he's somebody who is hardheaded from everything I've read and heard/seen about him. Probably not one to take orders from somebody he doesn't respect. I hope that he forms a strong relationship with Mitchell that is also confrontational because it could help to further encourage the team--either you play the way Jalen plays and try to prove the coach you're better than he thinks you are, or you play the way the coach wants and try to show the other guys that coach is right.

I think I'll stop talking now because at this time of the night I'm probably just running on with nonsense like verbal diarrhea.

jalen5 · 08-10-2005, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedythief

I agree that he doesn't seem to have the forceful, vocal type of personality that some great leaders have. But you can look at guys like Tim Duncan and know that they lead in other ways, specifically by playing well and putting the team on their back under any and all circumstances.

In San Antonio, Duncan is joined by a few players to lead that team. Tony Parker is a good floor general and leader. Robert Horry gives a great veteran presence as well. Bruce Bowen and Manu and more. They are a team very well built and with the perfect pieces.

Also, I think in most cases, the leader of a team kinda falls on the point guard's shoulders. I mean, that's almost what a PG is-- a leader on the floor. Just look at Billups, Iverson, Kidd, Marbury, Nash, Parker, Arenas, Baron Davis, Bibby, Payton. Others coming include Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Raymond Felton. Those guys all are, were, or are going to be the leaders on their teams. Yes, their are cases where a player like LeBron or a big man like Duncan, Shaq, Garnett, etc. could be the main leader, but I think most of the time it falls on the point guard.

**StephenJackson** · 08-10-2005, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budweiser_Boy

I don't give a rat's *** what the media perceived him as on other teams, because he's been anything but a cancer on the Raptors. Even when he was benched, he put his money where his mouth is and produced. He's a great guy to have in the locker room, simply because he's a solid veteran presence and isn't going to whine his way out of a tough situation.

Amen. Rose is the only reason I semi-follow the Raptors(don't take offense to that raps fans, I just don't have a lot of time with all the work I put into the Pacers.) He is a great player and a great influence, and the Raps would be foolish to do away with him this year. IMO anyway.

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