shookem

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on paper Canadian teams always look good, but we all know what kind of sucess we've had in international tourney's.

In our region we our completely middle of the pack, maybe better then Brazil, not nearly as good as Puerto Rico or Argentina.

Put it this way, Canada ranks 13th in world according to FIBA. Not bad, but pretty horrible when you consider that after the first 20, every other nation is absolute garbage at basketball.

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Boris

That Fiba rankings can't show you good picture of teams quality because the way they caunting poits. Each teams gets points for qualifying for big copmetition + bonus points for wining medals, and for wining medals in junior competitions. Because of that there are many teams from europ that are renked lower that Angola, because for European teams it is much harder to qualify for competitions, not to mention how hardder is to win medal at EC who is strongest overall competition, because there are 11 light contenders for the medal S&MN, Lituenia, Russia, Turky, Grece, Croatia, Slovenia, Spain, France, Italy and Germany and many solid teams like Izrael or Latvia. Teams like Georgia, Chek rep...are stronger then Angola or New Zeland can't even qualify for EC so they can't score points. That's why Angola, Australia, China is ranked higher then some better teams because it is much easyier to qualify for big competitions, and winig medals in their own continental Competitions that it is for teams from europ. For example. Last time I saw rankings Slovenia was ranked 23rd, and they are 5times stronger then Angola who was raked 8th overall. Slovenia has even stronger team overall than Canada with players like Udrih, Vujacic, Nahbar, Brezec, Nesterovic, Lorbek, Slokar, Becirovic, Lakovic, Ozbolt, Rizvic, Milic, Maravic... Some of this players are unknown for you but they are all good players.

I'm folowing big competitions for years so letter I will try to give you closer look at teams that might be playing in 2008. competitions.

shookem

yeah but the point it's USA, Argentina and Puerto Rico on this side of the globe, then teams like Canada and Brazil.
Also if what you are saying is true, then Canada is much worse.

Angola is ranked 17th, not 8th. You're right though, the points counting method is pretty bogus and teams like Australia and New Zealand shouldn't be ranked as high as they are. And Canada is in one of the toughest regions and we are an improving team and I do believe Leo is the guy for the job. I just love Canadian basketball so much and have been following it for so long that it angers me at how badly the national program has been botched. As far as I'm concerned, with the talent we have in this country we should be contending for medals in every tourney.

Here's my list of teams better then Canada:
US
ARG
YUG
ESP
ITA
LTU
RUS
FRA
GRE
PUR
GER
AUS
COR
CAN

wow, few things get me as fired up as Team Canada basketball.

I look forward to talking international ball with you though.

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Boris

1.USA: They will allwas have best players, but if they they don't play as a team, they will keep losing matches from teams like Puerto Rico. They shouldn't just call superstars, they also should call some role players. T Prince from Detroit would perfectly fit to play perimetar orieted power forward that is great for international way of playing. They also should call some players that are playing for big euroleague teams, because they will help NBA players faster to adapt on international way of playing and rules. For example A. Parker from Maccabi is great player. They also should have more preparations games.
2.Serbia: Before I start talk abuot basketball I must worn you that MN will probley separate from Serbia by the time Olymipics start just like Croatia, Slovenia, BiH and Macedonia did 15 years ago. Basketball: If all best Serbian players will play for their NT they should be very strong. Jaric, Rakocevic, Vujanic, Stojakovic, Radmanovic, Milicic, Krstic should make strong team + add some talented players like Aleksandrov, Tripkovic, Ilic...(I didn't mentioned some names because I don't know are they Serbia or MN) But first they need to find new leder for the team since Bodiroga left team+ they should try new way of playing because that old slow tempo is't working anymore.
3.Argentina. They have great players like Ginobili, Prigioni, Scola, Delfino, Oberto, Nocioni... who should be at their best at 2008 Olympics. They are playing great team basketball and they should have great chace te reapet 2004.
4.Croatia: I hope we will finaly have some luck in last sec. of games so finly after many years we will qualify for Olympics. If we qualify we should have most talented starting 5 in europ Ukic, Tomas, B. Bogdanovic, Markota and Tomic and with other players like Popovic, Planinic, Vujcic, Ugrinoski, Kasun, Bagaric, Peric...we should finaly haw chance to win medal. If only that idiot Giricek didn't said that he won't play for our NT anymore...I hope that Croatia will reapet Barcelona 92. when legendary Petrovic, Kukoc and Radja lead Croatia to the finals.

Tomorrow I will write you about some other teams. I have to go to bed now it is 3:50 am

Boris

Angola was 8th last time I saw, but I didn't saw new rankings.

Their is no Yugoslavia anymore Croatia, Slovenia, B&H and Macedonia separeated from Yugoslavia 15 years ago, and few yers ago Yugo part was renamed in Serbia and MonteN.

Tomorrow I'll will also tell you about Canadian that played in Croatia I think he also played for Canadian NT., but now realy have to go to bed.

Boris

5.Spain: should be one of the strongest contentders for medal with players like Calderon, Gasol, Lopez, Garbajosa, Reyes, Navaro and talented Vasquez, Rodriguez and Fernandez...Most important their players love to play with ich other so they are strong as a team. They are playing fast tempo bb and little dirty.
6.Lituenia: Before I start I have to say I'm in love in their basketball. They are playing so healty bb, it's just beautiful to watch. Their whole country lives for basketball. Jasikevicius, Macijauskas, Siskauskas, Jasiaitis, Lavrinovic brothers, Javtokas...men they have great number of quality players. It sems thet in Lituenians can't miss because they are all great shooters. They are playing great trasition game and with Jasikevicius as leader sky is limit for them.
7.France: With Parker, Pietrus brothers, Gelabale, and Diaw they are having very good team. Their bigest problems in past competitions was they didn't have quality center and Petro shoul be answer for that. Just like USA they have problems with zone D.
8.Slovenia:As I mentioned them before, they improved dramaticly in last few years, and now they are having very strong team that can win medal. Their players shuld be in their best years by the time 08. Olyimpic starts.
9.Brazil: I don't know much about them but they should have very good team with Splitter, Nene, Anderson, Barbosa...
10.Canada: Belive me you could do great in Olympics. Why? Because international bb is difrent. To win a medal in international competition you need to play team bb, and you need to have good C, and good PG, and yu have great PG. About MP. playing for Canada. I think their is rule in Fiba thet alaws teams to have one forigen player, but only if he didn't play for other country, so if M.P. never played US in junior competitions he would be free to play for Canada + he need to have Canadian citizenship. I think that I red somewhere that Brian Scalabrine is Canadian? About Canadian player that played in Croatia, for Zadar. I think his name was Michalel Meeks. Is he still playing for Canada? He isn't somethin special but with Maglorie inside he could be efective perimetar oriented PF + he is very clutch player. I dont' know others Canadian players but with Maglorie and Nash if Canada play the right way they have chance to do great.
11.Italy: It is very hard to say how good team they have because they are in some kind change of team. In past few competitions they played with big number of solid veterans, but now they have number of talented players like Bargnani, Belineli,Manchineli...so it is hard to say how good they are.

Boris

12.Turky: They have very strog team but they are playing like bunch of individuals, they are fighting with each other, and they suck as team. With Okur, Turkoglu, Peker, Turckan and Kuqo they have great inside, but they are very week out side, specialy at PG. Their best PGis Arslan who is average PG even for euro standards. Akyol and Ilyasova should improve by the time Olympics start. Their coach is legendary Bosa Tanjevic who could make them a team.
13.Russia: have great allaround players like Kirilenko, Khrjapa, Monia but they don't have go to guy. They also have problem with PG. American J.R. Holden is their PG but he's Mrbury like me first PG. Their bench is very week.
14.Germany: One word Nowitzki. They don't have much quality players. Only Hamann, Okulaja and Femerling + NOWITZKI are good players, but their mentality is discipline and never give up is making them good team. Nowitzki knows how to play with them, and they know how to play with him.
15.Greece: They don't have star players but many good players, they are playing team bb, and playing hard D, and very slow in offense wich is very ugly to watch but is efective.
16.Puerto Rico: I don't knom much about them, but I was impresed the way they were playing at Olympics.
17.China: I know only two players from China. Ming and Yi Lilian (or something). I was very impresed what I saw from him. If his age are true then he have potential to be superstar. I kno that they are good shooters+ they will hawe home court advantage.
18.Australia: With Bogut they are much stronger then they were before.
19.Mexico: I don't know them but I red tht they are inpruving

That's about all teams who have potetial to win something, but unfortunaly some of this teams will have to miss Olyimpics due to rules that alaws only small nummber of euro and american teams. I'm glad if I could help you to get you closer look at chaces of Canada winig medal.

Shookem, if you ask me I think that it would be smart move for Canada to hire coach from europ

Benis007

Guys I know nothing about international basketball.. and that was awesome to read.

The input is much appreciated.

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shookem

Boris buddy,
That was awesome, I love talking international ball!

The only things I really disagree with is your ranking of Croatia, it's too high.
I mean ahead of Spain and Lituania, no way, man. I've taken trips overseas to Croatia /Sibera and while those teams are top ten, top five is a huge stretch.

Now I'll get into some teams on this side of the pond, that you may not know as much about.

Puerto Rico is a great club. The handed the Americans their first ever Olympic loss when they blew them out 92-73 in Aug 2004. Basically these are the 'name' guys: Arroyo, Eddie Casiano, Elias Ayuso all of them deadly from behind the arc. Also Peter John Ramosn is a sick international player. Over here these guys are a legit #3.

Mexico: Eduardo Najera is pretty fricking good.

As far as Canada goes, meh, you never know what team your going to get. Is it the team that beat Puerto Rico in '03, or the team that went 1-3 this year in world champ qualifing. Also in 2002 Canada finished 13th at the world champs, not exactly promising. It's hard to tell from the outside, but trust me, Canada has taken a step backwards in national team basketball.


Here's a look at the teams competiting in Japan:
The following 24 teams will be participating in the Championship:

Angola
Argentina
Australia
Brazil
China
France
Germany
Greece
Italy
Japan
Lebanon
Lithuania
New Zealand
Nigeria
Panama
Puerto Rico
Qatar
Senegal
Serbia & Montenegro
Slovenia
Spain
Turkey
Venezuela
USA

Canada finished second in olympic qualifers in 1999, fifth in 2003.
World champs: 12th in 1998, 7th in 1994, 12th in 1990.

The team is in a transitional phase right now, Jay Triano (coach) has been ousted, which in my opinion is a good thing. Jay was never willing to look at street level talent, he'd never been seen in Scarborough, let alone in a gym in Parkdale or Jane and Finch. We've replaced him with Leo Rautins, here's his take after finishing last in their group this summer:

But Rautins is optimistic about the team's future. "We're going to have some very, very good players out of this group," said Rautins. "We have to take that and mould it into one team over the next couple of summers."

Actually here's the article, it gives you a good feel for where Canadian basketball is headed.
Chchchcheck it out

All in all it comes down Carl English, Levon Kendall, Juan Mendez and Denham Brown. Nash and Mags are done with our national teams...those *******s.

Anyways, like I said, it's wicked to talk international with someone as knowledgable as yourself.

PS: I can't believe I ****ed that YUG/CRO/SIB&MON thing up. My g/f is Croatian and she'd kill me if I lump her people in with the Serbs, lol.

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wind161

wow, that was a great read! Thanks a bunch Boris. Your vast knowledge in International ball really adds to the value of this board and of which sure everyone on this board appreciates!

Boris

Shookem, my ranking Croatia isn't to high. Why? I didn't won't to come to this but you made me to say this. Croatia was ripped vs Spain in this year quaterfinal game in EC. I'm not saying this because I'm Croatian. To prove this look at this links
http://www.kosarka.hr/forum/forum_po...p?TID=163&PN=1
http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1087
Now what made Luis Fernandez from Spain to say that bad refering stoped Croatia to play in semi-final, and all Lituenian fans to give suport Croatia after that game. Even some Spain fans said that they are sorry for things that hapend. Spain players after the game came to our players saying we are sorry it is Fiba fault for that. Even some Serbian fans who are objectiv said that Croatia is ripped and you know most Serbians hate Croatians. Why we was ripped. Because people from Spain and Greece are holding key places in Fiba Europ (Fiba world is totaly difrent organisation), and in Spain is new Eurobaske so they just need to make sure that Spain goes to WC. Not only Croatia complaind on refering when playing ageinst Spain, other teams did to, also teams that played with Greece faced same problems.

Belive me I'm allways trying to be objecitv. You could see that because I placed Serbians 2nd even I have very bad memoris with them and most croatians wouldn' place them so high. Also don't consider that as sure thing (I don't know how to say that on English) If I placed Lituenians on 3rd, Spain 4th, Argentina 5th or Slovenia 4th Frace 5th I wuoldn't go wrong. This rankings is just to help you to realize strenght of some teams. Now if you think that I'm overhypeing Croatia you are wrong. Best thing for you to see that is go to draftexpress and read articles about Eurobasket and you will see that I'm not overhypeing Croatia
Also you should take look at this link
http://www.eurobasket2005.com/en/cid...ndID_3769.html

Croatia is team with huge potetial for you to better realize that I will give you a look at our players that are now playing for Croatian team and players who should develop by the time Olyimpcs starst.
Roko Ukic PG 21-you all red much about Ukic so thei is nothing much to tell just that he is one of the most talented PG in Europ and that he is realy special player.
Marko Tomas SG/SF 21-very talented allround taletnt. He now plays for most trophy Europ club Real Madrid under legendary coach Bozo Maljkovic. He is first round talent. Let me just say that Larry Bird loves that guy. In past few seasons Bird came to Zagreb to see him many times. In one interview Larry said that he is very dispointed when Marko pulled out from this year draft.
Bojan Bogdanovic SF 16-He is only 16. but he allredy singed with Real Madrid for 1mil euro. He even turned down some bigger offers jut he could play for Maljkovic. He is one of the bigest talents in world in his goup age.
Damir Markota PF 20-He is lotery talent. His stock are lover right now but finaly this year he realized that without hard work he can't be a player. He plays for Cibona right now very solid euroleague team and now he is one of best young players in euroleague
Ante Tomic C 18-He is most talented cetar in europ in years. He have potential to be top pick overall. He is very unknown because he was 6-2 PG but then he started to grove like crazy. He grove 10 inches in one year. He is alredy one of the most skiled big mens in world but he is superthin and that hurts him right now to play at stronger level
Nikola Vujcic C 27 He is best Croatian player right now. Ther is no big men in world right now that has better skils then him, only average atletcisam soping him be superstar. He now plays for Maccabi avreging about 15pts 6rebs and 5asis(2nd overall in euroleague) He is the only player in Euroleagoe history to reach TD. Likely he will go to NBA next year
Gordan Giricek SG 28 Plays his forth NBA season in NBA (Utah Jazz) avering 10pts. But idiot said that he won't play for NT
Marko Popovic PG 24 He is one of best PG in euroleague and plays for very strong Efes Pilsen. He is our new leader.
Mario Kasun C 25 Plays for Orlando. Even he is 25 he have much space to impruve. At eurobasket before he got inyured he was best centar of the turnament. he have potential to be one of the best centars in game. Because bad luck he nevr reached that potential. For example one of things that stoped him was some stupid move from our Basketball Federation who banded him and he couldn't play basketball for two years.
Zoran Planinic PG/SG/SF 24. Plays for Nets. Zoran is talented player but NBA just isn't for him. He is jus to slow but on inernational level he is one of best combo guards
Dalibor Bagaric C 25 ex Chicago player. Now he plays for Climamio one of the best euroleage clubs. He impruved much since he returned from NBA and likly next year he will be back in NBA.
Andrja Zizic PF 25 One of best euroleague PF, plays for Olymiacos.
Aleksandar Ugrinoski PG 17 With Ukic and Rodiguez is most talented PG in europ first round talent
Hrvoje Kovacevic PG/SG 19 2nd round talent has potential to be solid beck up in NBA
Damjan Rudez SF 19 1st round talent
Hrvoje Peric SF 2nd round talent
Franko Kastropil C 21 2nd round talent, and many others borderline prospect and players who are playing at high level bb in europ.

shookem

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Wow I didn't know the controversy surrounding team Croatia, I mean I had heard about it, but always thought that teams who blame the officals are usually weak anyways....

but you stank of homerism buddy...

LOL! well at least you've got Croatian pride bud! LOL!

not even in your dreams is he lottery, second round maybe, assuming you're talking about the NBA draft.

Sucks that Giricek won't play, Canadians get that all the time wi