Team Mao

Okay, this plan is based on two basic assumptions:
1) Jalen Rose needs to leave this team in a hurry
2) Mike James will not be returning to Toronto after this season.

It also involves a few different trades and my draft day scenario. Feel free to bash when it's all said and done, but please let me know what's wrong with it rather than just saying 'dumb'.

Trade One with New Orleans/Oklohama/Nebraska/Wherever the Hornets are

Toronto Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Aaron Williams
6-9 PF from Xavier
2.1 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.0 apg in 7.7 minutes

Loren Woods
7-2 C from Arizona
1.0 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.0 apg in 11.3 minutes
Incoming

Arvydas Macijauskas
6-4 PG from Lithuania (Foreign)
2.4 ppg, 0.5 rpg, 0.1 apg in 5.9 minutes

2006 2nd round pick (roughly 40th as of Jan 1st)
Change in team outlook: -0.7 ppg, -5.4 rpg, and +0.1 apg.

New Orleans Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Arvydas Macijauskas
6-4 PG from Lithuania (Foreign)
2.4 ppg, 0.5 rpg, 0.1 apg in 5.9 minutes
Change in team outlook: -2.4 ppg, -0.5 rpg, and -0.1 apg.

Incoming

Aaron Williams
6-9 PF from Xavier
2.1 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.0 apg in 7.7 minutes

Loren Woods
7-2 C from Arizona
1.0 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.0 apg in 11.3 minutes
Change in team outlook: +0.7 ppg, +5.4 rpg, and -0.1 apg.



Trade ID 2786000

Toronto gets a dead eye shooter (ho would stop all the 'draft Reddick talk), a pick that can be used as a trading piece, and frees up some playing time to bring up Pape Sow.
New Orleans gets big man help in Aaron Williams who has played with Byron Scott before and an extra big body in Loren Woods who can be waived if needed. Also with 2 first round picks, they may be willing to part with the second rounder.

Trade Two with Memphis and New York

Toronto Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Jalen Rose
6-8 SG from Michigan
9.6 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.2 apg in 25.2 minutes

Mike James
6-2 PG from Duquesne
15.4 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 4.5 apg in 33.9 minutes

2006 2nd rounder from New orleans
2007 2nd Rounder

Incoming

Anfernee Hardaway
6-7 SG from Memphis
2.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 18.0 minutes

Nate Robinson
5-9 PG from Washington
8.4 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 18.4 minutes

Memphis 2006 1st
Memphis 2006 2nd

Change in team outlook: -14.1 ppg, -0.8 rpg, and -3.2 apg.


Memphis Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Hakim Warrick
6-9 SF from Syracuse
2.6 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.2 apg in 8.9 minutes

Anthony Roberson
6-2 PG from Florida
2.0 ppg, 0.4 rpg, 0.4 apg in 5.8 minutes

2006 first
2006 second

Incoming

Mike James
6-2 PG from Duquesne
15.4 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 4.5 apg in 33.9 minutes

Trevor Ariza
6-8 SF from UCLA
4.8 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 1.4 apg in 20.6 minutes

2006 Toronto 2nd and
2006 New Orleans 2nd (via TO)
Change in team outlook: +15.6 ppg, +4.9 rpg, and +5.3 apg.

New York Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Trevor Ariza
6-8 SF from UCLA
4.8 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 1.4 apg in 20.6 minutes

Anfernee Hardaway
6-7 SG from Memphis
2.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 18.0 minutes

Nate Robinson
5-9 PG from Washington
8.4 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 18.4 minutes

Incoming

Jalen Rose
6-8 SG from Michigan
9.6 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.2 apg in 25.2 minutes

Hakim Warrick
6-9 SF from Syracuse
2.6 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.2 apg in 8.9 minutes

Anthony Roberson
6-2 PG from Florida
2.0 ppg, 0.4 rpg, 0.4 apg in 5.8 minutes
Change in team outlook: -1.5 ppg, -4.1 rpg, and -2.1 apg.

Toronto gets some value for Jalen and Mike James. As much as I hate to see Mike go, we should get something for him before he leaves at the end of the season. Penny's expiring gives us space earlier which we can choose whether or not to use and Nate gives us lots of energy and defense as a backup to Jose. We trade high and mid second rounders for a low first and a second next year.

Memphis wants a veteran point guard to help them in their playoff run, well Mike James is a vet PG who has played for a championship team.They give up Warrick but get back a much cheaper version in Ariza. The two second rounders are good because they don't have to guarantee contracts.

New York, Isiah really has no other options for Penny. Letting him run out makes absolutely no sense for that team. They give up Nate and Ariza but get back Warrick who is a great young player. Rose can play the 2 for them which seems like a position with lots of instability for the Knicks this year.

Post Trade LineUp for the Raps

PG- Calderon/Robinson/Macijauskas
SG- Peterson/Macijauskas/Hardaway
SF- Graham/Villaneuva/Williams
PF- Bosh/Villanueva/Sow
C- Araujo/Bosh/Sow

Plus loads of cap space and 3 first round picks, 1st, 14th and 25th (according to Draftexpress).

JuniorNoboa

Trade #1

- Why the heck would New Orleans want to give up a young player for older sluff. (With contracts beyond this year). Absolutely ridiculous trade.

Trade #2

Jalen Rose is done. Useless. No worth. And he will probably be worse next year, as he gets older (the thought is painful) Hardaway is a more valuable property then Rose, simply due to the fact that his contract is done in a year and not two, so we need to compensate NY in some way for them taking on a useless contract for 2007.

Then beyond that you are trading Mike James for NATE ROBINSON!!! (I am sure the Knicks want to do that) + a first. .... keep on believing that.

If your going to be a fake trader at least be realistic.

Your trading guys that our no longer useful to us because of our situation, and trading them teams that our in the same franchise life cycle (New Orleans, New York). That in itself, should be a good indicator to slap yourself

By the way I do agree with your premise that we need to get rid of Jalen Rose and get something for Mike James. Those makes sense.... your just being way too optomistic in your expected return

ansoncarter

NY is also getting a little prospect goes by the name of HAKEEM DUNKMACHINE WARRICK!

(and some guy I never heard of lol)

wish Warrick was coming our way somehow

JuniorNoboa

But they are basically giving up:

Ariza (who I think they really like)
Robinson (who is just as spectacular / good as Hakim)

for

Hakim (question mark at the NBA level)
Roberson (scrub)


Plus taking on a useless contract for 2006/07 in Rose.

It just does not make any sense from there end.

shookem

guys I got it.

We trade Alvin Williams for Shawn Marion!

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bigbabyjesus

No!!! Alvins a warrior!!

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Team Mao

#1- Aaron Williams and Woods both expire this year. Also, Mache does not seem to be part of any of NO plans after they brought in Mason. So New Orleans gets out of a 3/4 year contract that they don't need and they get more cap space for this off season.

#2- If Hardaway had any better value, don't you think Isiah would have traded him by now for this 'perceived' better value that is out there right now. NEWSFLASH: HARDAWAY HAS NO VALUE. No one is dying for capspace this season. You will see by the deadline that no one will give him anything for Penny. The GMs know that Isiah is a fool, and won't be duped by a fool.

Let's look at each team again and what they are getting

Toronto
Give Get
Rose>>>>>Hardaway
James>>>>Robinson

NY
Hardaway<<<<<<Rose
Ariza<<<<<<<<<Warrick
Robinson>>>>>>Roberson

Memphis
Warrick>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ariza
Roberson<<<<2 2nd round Picks


Oh yeah, I think maybe you should slap yourself in the face for 1-spouting off nonsense about contracts that you obviously don't know about, 2- Believing that Hardaway has awesome value in the league, and especially 3-Saying Nate Robinson is just as good as Hakim Warrick.

Go back upstairs and get your Mum to make you some hot cocao little man.

Rhubarb

With the first deal with Nawlins, I don't see us giving up two big bodies for another shooter, even if one of those big bodies is Loren Woods. That leaves us with what? Bosh, Araujo, Sow, Villy, and Bonner, if you count him as a big. In a team that already lacks a veteren big guy, we'd be trading one away for a guy who is not only unproven in the NBA. I don't see what the big fuss over Maccas is.

As for the NY/Memphis deal, I can't see the Grizzlies parting ways with both Warrick and their first rounder. Yes, they're on the lookout for that plug-in scoring guard, but for the price you've named? Doubt it.

__________________
Tim Duncan: "People should stop talking about Bosh as a future force. He's already a force, right here and now."

"I don't really look at guys and memorize players, but (Bosh) is very impressive. He can shoot, he has an inside game, physical at times, he's pretty good...he's more than holding his own." - Shaq

"I really like him...to me he's already pretty special," Mavericks star Dirk Nowitzki said after continually getting beat to the basket by Bosh. "He's going to be a great player in this league."

"Chris Bosh really has emerged to be a star in this league. There are more than the top three (in the 2003 draft)." - Dwyane Wade

I love everything about him, I love his game, I love his work ethic. He definitely has my approval - Kobe Bryant"

JuniorNoboa

[quote] Fair enough - I had some facts wrong on Williams and Mache.

You missed my point entirely

Jalen Rose is Useless - under contract for two years
Penny Hardaway us Useless - under contract for one year

Penny Hardaway "Value" = One Kick in the Nuts
Jalen Rose "Value" = Two Kicks in the Nuts

So who has more value:

If you must select one kick or two kicks in the nads, what do you select. And if your willing to take two kicks in the nads instead of one, then your going to look to be compensated in other way.

Yes, Penny has no "positive" value. No one will go after him. But he has less "negative" value then Rose.

No let's just look at New York

Let's break it down into two trades:
1. Penny for Rose STRAIGHT UP - Knicks won't do that.

2. Ariza,Robinson for Roberson, Warrick

Ariza is MUCH Better then Roberson. He is in the same class as Robinson and Warrick as prospects. Roberson is a scrub.

Now Robinson for Warrick. First off before getting into a pissing match as to WHO we think is better look at from Thomas' perspective - he drafted Robinson 21st, Warrick went 19th. Robinson has certainly not been a disappointment... I don't think he would make a Robinson for Warrick trade. (and isn't that what matters most).

Clearly if you look at it from this perspective is getting the short-end on Penny, reallly getting shafted on Ariza, and Isiah probably thinks more highly of Nate then Hakim (rightly or wrongly)

So no way they make that Trade.

MAYBE, if you add the Memphis first to New York rather then Toronto things would be equal.


Done - just slapped myself.


Never said he had awesome value. Only said he had more value then Rose... so a kick in the nuts to you.


I don't think there is a big difference between the two. Obviously, I have seen Hakim much more then you given my following the SU program, and by watching him it is quite clear that he is quite vulnerable in the NBA game. (HOPE I AM WRONG). I would take Robinson over Warrick. They are both role players, who will need a good fit to find alot of minutes.

My mom died six months ago.

Team Mao

As to the first point, yes we do lose out on veteran bigs. But we should get some value back for them before we lose them for nothing. Basically it's Williams for Mache and Woods for a 2nd round pick. Not too bad for value. I think that the Hornets are one of the few teams that might do a deal for those two. Seeing as Bosh is putting in about 15mpg at centre, that leaves only 33 to split between Sow and Araujo. Gives Sow a chance to show us that we need to resign him. The second rounder gives us a good trading piece. The fuss with Mache is that he is regarded as the best shooter in Europe, something that the European players excel in and he's the best. We don't have great shooters in the backcourt, MoPete is really streaky, Calderon has a weak shot, who else? I would rather have a great shooter in the backcourt than have Bonner ahooting 3s, we need our PFs to rebound not shoot.

Second point, I agree that it's a high price. but I don't think they're looking to take back long deal. there aren't a lot of PGs in the league with an expiring/short deal who are talented enough to help take that team to the playoffs this year. After the year they can decide to re-sign James or Bobby Jackson. They do get back a poor man's Warrick in Ariza who would be a late 1st pick in this year's draft, plus he expires so they can let him go in a S&T after the season if they're not happy with him, there would be plenty of takers for him. The two second rounders could be used as trading pieces, to move up in the in the draft, or pick up a few projects (the draft sites have guys like Hilton Armstrong, Hassan Adams, Dee Brown, James White going in that range).

This deal comes down to how much Memphis wants to make a push in the playoffs this year. As of now, they are on of the top 4 teams in the West, sometimes teams are willing to part with future pieces to help with the present. The deal would hinge on their mind set regarding this year, which I think is that they feel they can make a push.