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AirBonner · 01-19-2006, 08:43 AM

^^^^ Hoffa is consistently caught in slow rotations and is unable to block out more athletic opponents. He can play good D against other guys who really like to be physical in the post like Zo but overall his defense inside is sorely lacking as was evident in the Utah game and during his limited minutes in the Portland game. Points in the paint is always an issue for the raptors and that buck ultimately stops with the C. Furthermore, Hoffa has like 1 block all year. Let's be realistic ... I've tried to give this guy time but he'll be at best a limited minutes role player in the L. Sow on the other hand at least has some potential to be more than that. With shot blocking and more effective rebounding all he needs to bring is some ability to play good D in the post and he is an improvement on Hoff.

**CrookedJ** · 01-19-2006, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirBonner

^^^^ Hoffa is consistently caught in slow rotations and is unable to block out more athletic opponents. He can play good D against other guys who really like to be physical in the post like Zo but overall his defense inside is sorely lacking as was evident in the Utah game and during his limited minutes in the Portland game. Points in the paint is always an issue for the raptors and that buck ultimately stops with the C. Furthermore, Hoffa has like 1 block all year. Let's be realistic ... I've tried to give this guy time but he'll be at best a limited minutes role player in the L. Sow on the other hand at least has some potential to be more than that. With shot blocking and more effective rebounding all he needs to bring is some ability to play good D in the post and he is an improvement on Hoff.

How many times last night did Hoff come over to double team Z-Bo and leave Pryzbilla, and no one rotated over to help? Easy bucket for Pryzbilla.
I guess it comes down to:
1) if Sam wanted doubles in those situations, then Graham / Mo whomever is to blame for not helping
2) if Sam didn't want doubles, then Hoff isn't listening to the game plan.

I'll answer my own question - it happened at least 3 times in his limited minutes - the double teams on two of those were more of a help out as Zach was driving - the kind of help that only a shot blocker can do effectively. So IMO there really isn't much point in having Hoffa come over to challenge Z-Bo's shots ( he's not going to block them) and leaving his own man 6 feet from the hoop.

Maybe Hoff thinks he can block shots? LOVED the anger foul on Randolph though, he clubbered him good!

**Turkish Delight** · 01-19-2006, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrookedJ

How many times last night did Hoff come over to double team Z-Bo and leave Pryzbilla, and no one rotated over to help? Easy bucket for Pryzbilla.
I guess it comes down to:
1) if Sam wanted doubles in those situations, then Graham / Mo whomever is to blame for not helping
2) if Sam didn't want doubles, then Hoff isn't listening to the game plan.

I'll answer my on question - it happened at least 3 times in his limited minutes - the double teams on two of those where more of a help out as Zach was driving - the kind of help that only a shot blocker can do effectively. So IMO there really isn't much point in having Hoffa come over to challenge Z-Bo's shots ( he's not going to block them) and leaving his own man 6 feet from the hoop.

Maybe Hoff thinks he can block shots? LOVED the anger foul on Randolph though, he clubbered him good!

I hated that foul, stupid play. He already cost us the posession before with 3 in the key, and we give up the ball again because he for some reason tried to bulldoze Randolph. From those two quick turnovers, the Blazers really got it going.

AirBonner · 01-19-2006, 11:05 AM

^^^ I agree. Ridiculous foul. He was just bitter because he was coming out of the game ... its not like he was trying to motivate his team or scare his opponents. Also, the reason for him going to double is to prevent the drive/post up thus denying the easy shot and hinder the inside pass not block the shot. The best place for a shot blocker is not on the double but confronting someone is already driving the lane.

lucky777s · 01-19-2006, 12:35 PM

I loved that foul. That mean streak is part of what I liked about Hoffa at BYU. It showed some fire and passion to be on the floor. He's not coasting out there, he's just frustrated. He was pissed with Sam, and rightfully so.

The game was already in the crapper and got worse when he left. No way you can blame Hoff's 10 minutes for that mess.

3 in the key usually has more to do with the shooter passing up a shot they should take or not making the entry pass on time. Bosh and Charlie had worse turnovers.

Hoff consistantly cuts off penetration, helping our guards and Bosh. Its the other guys who let Hoff down after that. The only rotation he struggles with is when he gets involved in pick and rolls far outside the lane. He has trouble quickly getting back to his man afterwards because of the distance. That's why Bonner plays so much C now. He makes the right decision quickly and can double-team and recover.

**ballocks** · 01-19-2006, 01:01 PM

i think the 3 in the key call against hoffa brought up here was indicative of at least two things:

1) i think it was overlooked in the broadcast but it shouldn't have been called at all. it wouldn't have been called, imo, had the player involved not been rafael araujo. he was on the block, with a defender on his back and moving out of the lane when the whistle blew. it was not your typical 3 in the key nonsense. i mean, he was barely in the key and moving out anyway. i wish more light were given to that play.

2) regardless of whether it should or should not have been called, hoffa should have been more aware. i wish he had a better instinct about him, he's a little too careless at times, and that call was just one example. not that the whistle should've been blown, common sense also has a role in pro sports, but he should've hedged any risk. he didn't.

peace

**bigbabyjesus** · 01-19-2006, 06:55 PM

I don't know if he'll ever develop with Sam Mitchell as our coach, unfortunately.

**madman** · 01-19-2006, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vigilante

I don't know if he'll ever develop with Sam Mitchell as our coach, unfortunately.

hopefully babs has the onions to admit his mistake and not resign him and either throw him in a trade or just let him go and not sign him and try to sell the fans that he is still developing

Also Pape wont be getting hoffs minuets because earlier Sam had said you cant play yourself out of the line up which is odd cause thats what happened with Jalen

lucky777s · 01-20-2006, 07:51 AM

For those that are getting so excited about Pape Sow and his D league numbers, take a look at what James Lang did for Arkansas last night with the PT left by Sow.

30 points on 12/16 shooting, 14 boards, and 4 blocked shots.

Makes you think a little about what Pape's numbers really mean. Lang hasn't been able to stick in the nba. Wasn't even getting too many minutes with ARK with Pape there. Pape plays ahead of him because he has an nba club pushing his minutes.

Very interesting.

PS for those interested there is a nice video feature on Gerald Green on the main page of the D league.

Benis007 · 01-20-2006, 09:38 AM

I think that its very interesting that Pape has already gotten black listed by Sam, doesn't seem to be very productive.

As much as I hope that Hoffa hits his stride I have given up on the big guy, I am really pulling for Pape.

lucky777s · 01-20-2006, 10:13 AM

Look at it this way. Pape had his chance to beat out Hoffa and Loren for PT in training camp. He obviously didn't do that.

Does a few weeks in the nbdl really improve Pape so much that he can just step in and be dramatically better than those guys now? I don't see how.

Does anybody really think Sam wouldn't play the kid if he felt he was the best option? Why?

Once this road trip is over and Pape has a full practice with the team then Sam might be able to throw him some minutes. But unless you think Sow could be a 14rpg guy with 30 minutes per game then what do you really expect his contribution to be in the 12mpg Hoff is getting? Would Sow get 4 boards compared to Hoff's 3. And maybe finish the one shot attempt under the hoop that Hoff misses? That's probably your best case scenario. Not a big impact, and if he doesn't rotate, box out,or deny easy low post position as well as Hoff then those stats will just hide a negative overall contribution.

Keep in mind that only 10 guys in the whole league average 10 or more boards. Nobody over 13.

**bigbabyjesus** · 01-23-2006, 06:19 PM

Sow gives us better post defense than Hoffa. He brings more athleticism to the floor. He brings a shot blocking presence.

Worse offensive player, but that doesn't matter. We don't need either to score.

martymar · 01-24-2006, 12:04 AM

Pape Sow played well tonite I hope after tonight he gets more consistent minutes

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